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POI - Classic Trap

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dmarbell, Jul 30, 2007.

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  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I recently bought an 870 Classic Trap. I've only been able to shoot a few rounds with it, and I haven't patterned it yet. But I'm not hitting much with it.

    Classic Trap Shooters - where do these things shoot, in general? I know a lot depends on personal mount and measurements, but there should be a consensus on how high or flat CTs shoot.

    Also, besides patterning, is it a good idea to turn off the oscillation and shoot some straight-aways to get a feel for where the POA / POI is for trap yardages? It seems like you could move around the various posts and get a good feel for the aim point.

    Danny
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Danny- First check the POI at 13 yards. Make sure it is not shooting to the right or left. Many shooters like the gun to shoot 3 inches high at 13 yards. More than 3 inches is not bad. I would not shoot targets over a trap that is not oscillating. You can shoot a poorly fitting gun well if you know what angle the target will come out of the house. It may be helpful to shoot a couple of boxes from post three.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. SirMissalott

    SirMissalott Active Member

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    Mine shoots relatively flat for a trap gun.
     
  4. famill00

    famill00 TS Member

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    60/40

    Forrest
     
  5. JJJ

    JJJ TS Member

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    Mine shot TOO FLAT for a trap gun. I had the stock cut, & raised the point of impact. There are 3 of us that shoot together. We all shoot classics & are well pleased. The consensus is they shoot too flat as they come from the factory. First do what one of the other shooters suggested. Make sure it is not shooting right or left.
     
  6. skypan12

    skypan12 TS Member

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    I just got one also and mine shoots about 60/40 from the 30yd line, (with mod choke). I will be doing what Pat sugjests and going to the 13yd line and see what it does from there.

    I have a question here (not to hijack the thread) what choke are you useing when patterning ? I am using a full now (which I have not pattern yet) and seem to be doing a little better with it than the mod I had in it.

    Jeff
     
  7. skypan12

    skypan12 TS Member

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    I just got one also and mine shoots about 60/40 from the 30yd line, (with mod choke). I will be doing what Pat sugjests and going to the 13yd line and see what it does from there.

    I have a question here (not to hijack the thread) what choke are you useing when patterning ? I am using a full now (which I have not pattern yet) and seem to be doing a little better with it than the mod I had in it.

    Jeff
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    You have to test it. No other way. Same for all the others from $$$$$ to cents - they can be anything at all and there's only one way to find out. Pattern with the choke you intend to use; there can be surpirses there as well. Mod should work, Jeff. Full should too.

    Neil
     
  9. REDD04

    REDD04 TS Member

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    Good advise has been given. But just FYI, mine shoots about 60/40 with the beads stacked.
     
  10. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    The responses about the left or right shooting: is this a problem with this particular gun? I shot high, low, on target off target and everything in between it seems with the few shots I took. I just couldn't figure anything out. Misses left or right might seem to be the next answer. If the beads are lined up at the beginning and stayed aligned, the gun would shot off line only if the beads are misaligned with the barrel, right?

    Which brings up another whole issue. At 53, I'm shooting with prescription glasses, tinted orange like shooting glasses. They are pretty good for distance, but hard to focus on the beads as near as they are. Any particular method for making sure the beads are aligned? Once aligned, the same mount on the same part of the shoulder should cure that problem, I would think.

    Danny
     
  11. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I have only been shooting trap since march 06. I started with a 870 exspress 28" with a MOD choke. I shot well with that gun. I then shot the gun clubs 870 Comp. It shot the same way my 870 did flat. Every factory 870 1100 1187 i have shot be it trap or field have been what i would consider flat. I hardly had sights on that 870. Do not pay to much attention to sights when shooting. At home when practicing my mount i will bead check for alignment. I shoot A XT now and have pattern as neil W. says set it up to shoot high @13 yards 4" IM briely spectrum choke U. Xtra full turkey choke O. They are the only 2 exstended chokes I have.
     
  12. skypan12

    skypan12 TS Member

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    Well it seems most all concour that the 870's shoot pretty flat, being new to trap is it a little more desirable to have a gun shoot a little high?

    I pd top doller for my 870 CT at Gander Mountain 850.00 plus tax, I should have looked a little more but I wanted it and didnt want to wait, so I am wondering with it shooting lets say for conversation sake flat would it be worth haveing an adj comb cut in it to make it shoot little higher? or just shoot more and get used to it shooting flat and where the POI would be as is?

    Jeff
     
  13. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    It's hard to self-diagnose. I'll have someone help me look at this gun fit. But, for preliminary. I'm a right-handed shooter.

    It looks like my eye is too far left on the comb for a good alignment of the beads. I need more cast on the stock, or a comb adjustable for cast.

    In the meantime, can you add moleskin in such a way to get your cheekbone slightly farther right on the comb? If you start a couple of layers right on top of the comb and lap over to the right, and finish with one covering the whole comb, should that move the anchor point right? I know it will raise the comb, but a little higher shooting mount wouldn't hurt with this gun.

    Danny
     
  14. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Hi Danny,

    I have been doing some POI testing myself getting the easiest observable results shooting at paper, 13yds or 40 - 45 feet and a full choke, at a local indoor pistol range and a 2x2' sheet of butcher paper because of the target hangers. Neil's method is a lot more efficient, but this is the best I can do.

    Mike
     
  15. tsosin

    tsosin TS Member

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    At the Indiana State shoot I had a new Browning xt fitted by Todd Nelson who can be reached at www.gunfitter.com. I'm firmly convinced that he can fit your gun to your physical features and solve your problem.
     
  16. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Report after patterning this weekend. The club was busy this weekend, so I only shot six shots, two each at three targets for POI. I did this from a standing position. I plan to go back when no one's around shooting, and do a bench rest shoot.

    With comb firmly under cheekbone, figure eight aligned, I shot 3 inches left on all six shots. After the first four, I tried two more with a different choke just to make sure the choke wasn't the problem - same result. I tried moleskin added from the top of the comb over to the right in a feable attempt to simulate right hand cast, on the last two shots, but the results were the same.

    Pattern was a bit flat, maybe 55/45.

    Bench shooting should answer this, but what is the possibility I'm pulling the barrel left that much with a defective trigger pull technique? Six in a row? I also patterned a Beretta 390 that I shoot, and it was dead on horizontally.

    Some folks at the club were questioning my barrel. I am going to borrow another 870 T barrel and give it a try. This doesn't seem like a very likely solution, or am I that naive to think the barrel is not that screwed up?

    The MC stock is cast very straight (no cast, I guess). I could also borrow a stock with more cast, or try to find one with adj comb.

    Is there any other way to simulate the stock movement that will make the gun align for me? I know the other answer is adj comb and adj butt, with cast change also. I'm just a little reluctant to spend another $500 on what is essentially a $600 gun. I guess that makes no sense, though. Another $500 and I could have a gun that fits me very well.

    It just seems that this gun might fit someone else as it is, and my $1100 (600+500) could go into a gun with an adj comb and butt already on it.

    By the way, I did shoot one round with the gun again Saturday and shot a solid 14. I then shot 22-23 for two rounds with the Beretta (skeet gun with full choke).

    Danny
     
  17. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    The newer generation Remingtons are abhorrent. (And I am one this site's biggest Remington 1100 advocates - OLDER ones, that is)

    Seriously. They do. You're not hitting much with it (assuming you were shooting better before you had this gun) because either the barrel isn't straight and/or the choke tube alignment is off. There is the odd person now and then who gets a "straight" one with the newer stuff, but as a rule of thumb, you want to buy Remingtons made up to about the mid 1980s. Some of the 1990s guns are ok, but they start going downhill - fast and hit rock bottom in the early 2000s era to present day.

    I had an 1100 Classic Trap I bought new in 2000. I struggled to hit 14 out of 25 with it in the first round. (I'm a AA-27-A shooter with 50,000+ registered and 250,000-300,000 non registered birds shot over 25 years). I immediately swapped out the whole front half of that gun with my old 1100 (barrel bolt and forend, because the "new" 1100 is still really an 11-87) and proceeded to vaporize 49 out of 50, five minutes later on that same trap field.

    You would be much better off buying a used, older 870 (or 1100) in good condition. They do tend to be flatter shooters, but the older ones shot straight and pattern tight as hell. Heck, you've got about six million of the older 870s out there and 3-4 million of the older 1100s

    Seriously, sell that new one, trade it, whatever. Just get an older one and you will shoot better. The old ones are that good. The new ones are that bad.

    It's sad, but it's that simple.
     
  18. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    stevel-ct

    If that's all that's wrong, the fix is not that painful. 30" 870 barrels should be a dime a dozen out there. Remchoked ones might be harder to come by.

    I had a conversation with a man on the range Sat who offered to lend me a barrel to try. I'll let you know if that fixes it.

    Danny
     
  19. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    You'd be surprised what the trap barrels are going for these days. Almost as much as the entire used, gun itself in some instances.

    With that said, the older field barrels with fixed chokes are a dime a dozen and shoot just as well as the trap barrels. The only difference is a steel front bead and no mid rib bead and no "step" like on the 9612 and 9614 1100 bbls
     
  20. Pat McKean

    Pat McKean Active Member

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    Alta California
    I've had an Remington 11-87 for about eight years. It was a very low shooting gun. I used a velcro pad on the stock to raise the POI, and later on had Jack West make me an adjustable comb stock, which I really like. I shot a few really good scores with it, and some really bad ones as well.


    I just had the recoil pad replaced with a straight Kick-Eez and the stock maker (Lance Keller) added two tapered spacers to take out the pitch and I'm now grinding up the targets from 16. What a difference!


    Go look at the photos on the Remington site and you can see the pitch in the standard trap gun. I think the excessive pitch made me shoot the gun inconsistently.


    I'm really looking forward to the new target year to improve my scores over this year!


    -Pat
     
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