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POI and Pattern pics

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dmarbell, Jul 30, 2008.

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  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Beretta 391 with 30" barrel, Moneymaker adjustable rib, adjustable comb, IM choke, 1 oz. of #8. POI and pattern at 15 yards and then at 30 yards. This POI looks about 100% high to me, at least 90%. Pattern looks pretty good at 30 yards.

    Danny

    <a href="http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z16/dmarbell/Trapshooters/?action=view&current=39115yards.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z16/dmarbell/Trapshooters/?action=view&current=39130yards.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  2. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    For kicks, my Browning GTI POI and pattern. 32" barrels, mod chokes, 15 and 30 yards. Very flat, even for sporting?

    Danny

    <a href="http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z16/dmarbell/Trapshooters/?action=view¤t=GTI15yards.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z16/dmarbell/Trapshooters/?action=view¤t=GTI30yards.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  3. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    By the way, top of front bead touching the cross. Shot from a 5-foot step ladder, after free-hand mounting and then slight move to rest on the top of the ladder.

    Posted for comments.

    Danny
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Good job, Danny. I recall from Hooligan's thread you said you were going to do this - and see how well it worked!

    Nice straight shooting (right to left) guns. Height is a matter of taste. Were I shooting the Browning, I might try adding a couple of layers of moleskin and seeing what it did to my scores. For me the single shoots way too high but that's just me; you may find it "just right."

    Your pictures show what a huge difference there is in 15-yard patterns between full and modified chokes, the hole you get with full if you use one oz of 8's as I suggested to Hooligan, and the fact that you can gauge choke as well - perhaps better - from close than from far.

    Thanks for the pictures. We still have a ways to go to get everyone doing this, but your published experience should help.

    Yours in Sport,

    Neil
     
  5. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Neil,

    Thanks for the comments. I used 15 yards because my club has posted the approximate pattern size for various yardages by choke. I don't have a copy, but I think it started at 10 and went to over 40 by fives. If I remember, 30 yards with IM choke was 29" pattern. Mine was about right. (I'll search the web for the chart.)

    Also, the size difference at 30 yards between IM and F was only 3" if I remember correctly. That's 1.5" on each side! With the coverage I got with the IM, I can't decide whether the extra choke is worth using? Most singles shots are probably beyond 30 yards, but I got lots of hits on the bird-sized drawing with the IM.

    Danny
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Danny, thanks for sharing the pics with us. Sure would've been nice to see how comparative patterns shot from a sandbagged bench looked also? I've patterned a bunch from the bench and as you did with a rest and off-hand. I couldn't see any difference in how my guns patterned either way. Hap
     
  7. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Danny...was that a GTI??
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Nice pictures. They clearly show the ease of determining the POI at close range and the difficulty of determining the POI at longer ranges.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    CalvinMD,

    Yes, the second gun was my Browning GTI. I changed the post, also. Darned keyboards.

    Goose2,

    I also thought the 391 shot a little left, especially in the 30 yard shot. I estimated maybe 1-2" at 30 yards, but honestly the cross was so light on the paper at that yardage, aiming wasn't that easy. Plus, the bead is so much bigger than the cross at that yardage, it doesn't take being off by much to be off 1-2" at 30 yards.

    If 1/16" rise in comb raises POI by 2" at 32 yards, then 1/16" off left or right will also change POI left or right by 2" at 32 yards, right?

    Danny
     
  10. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I drew the bird in the 391 30 yard shot offhand, without much thought. I was trying to put it up in the pattern. I have redrawn a bird with an "X" thru it in the approximate center of the pattern, or at least 2" below the first bird. That will give me a pattern about 2" lower, and I plan on dropping the comb by 1/16" and try it again.

    I'm doing this based on Neil's comment, which conclusion I had already reached, that the gun is shooting very high for a part-time shooter like me. In fact, I think I'll shoot the 15 yard pattern again with 1/16" and 1/8" removed, for evaluation. I use nylon washers, and each one is about 1/16", though they seem to vary somewhat in thickness.

    Danny

    <a href="http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z16/dmarbell/Trapshooters/?action=view&current=39130yardsb.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Danny, now that you have done the hard work, you can accurately adjust your POI without firing another shot. Here's how.

    First, measure (or have someone else measure) the distance between your front bead and your eye and record that number. Then divide that distance into the distance you are shooting at and you have the multiplier for the effect adjustments at the comb or bead will have. Here is an example. There are 45" between my front bead and my eye when I have the gun mounted. There are 15 x 36 = 540" in 15 yards. Divide 540 by 45 = 12. So any adjustment I make to my comb or bead will be magnified by 12 at 15 yards, or 24 at 30 yards, etc.

    So if I lower my comb by 1/16" I will lower POI by 12 x 1/16" = 3/4" at 15 yards. If I lower by 1/8", POI will lower by 1.5".

    You can also turn the equation around to make easy estimates. I use a 1" difference in POI as my reference point. Using a 1/16" spacer, my POI will change by 1" at 16 x 45" = 720" (or 20 yards). That equates to 2" at 40 yards, or 1.5" at 30 yards, and so on. If I use two 1/16" spacers (the equivalent of one 1/8" spacer), the effect is doubled (8 x 45" = 360" (10 yards)). So all I really have to remember is a 1/16" change moves my POI by 1" @ 20 yards. Then I can figure out the effect of any other adjustment at any distance in my head.

    BTW, the same relationship holds for lateral adjustments. So if I\shift my comb 1/16" to the right, POI will move 1" right at 20 yards (or 3/4" at 15). You look like you need to move right by between 1/4" and 1/2" at 15 yards. Let's split the difference and say 3/8". If continued testing proves that to be correct, then you will have to shift your comb 1/32" right to get a 3/8" effect at 15 yards. (Added later) You can figure it out exactly when you have your eye-bead distance measured.
     
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