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Please explain the options at ATA events

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Borg, May 14, 2010.

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  1. Borg

    Borg Member

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    So I've been shooting trap in leagues for a few years, and have shot in three registered shoots. I am very hooked (got myself a shinny new 682 gold E trap). Constantly wondering when I can shoot again. Been lurking on this site for some time, reading what I can.

    Anyway, I have never seen a description of the various options available at tournaments, and the "bet" you are making when you buy in. I pretty much understand the Lewis class.

    While I'm not that much of a threat at this point (low 90's average at singles and current handicap) I would like to know what the point of the various option are so I can decide if I want to buy in. You never know. Lightning could strike.

    Thanks
    Peter
     
  2. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    The option with the best chance of paying off is the one where you keep your money in your pocket.

    EE
     
  3. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Peter, My Mother used to say "a fool and his money are soon parted". EE is no fool, he's a very wise shooter. Shoot often and enjoy it while we can, Bob
     
  4. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    At the bigger shoots the options are explained in the Program Book,
    I don't play options, all they do is feed the big dogs, but I've learned how to play the Lewis Class :>)
     
  5. The Stive

    The Stive Member

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    I agree with EE. The best option is to keep your money in your pocket. John
     
  6. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    A lot of Registerd shooters Complain about the no money in trap anymore thing . But don,t play the Options .

    But how can you blame them ? Registerd Trap cost alot of money just to shoot without playing options . My chance of winning is zero and if I would Win the Lewis I may get back my own money only .

    Take your Option money and put it in a safe place do this for one year .
    You will be so far ahead of the game you can buy most of your reloading stuff for all year .
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Save your money so you can enter the World Series of Poker Main Event. That's where you can win some real money. HMB
     
  8. maltzahn

    maltzahn Active Member

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    If there wasn't options to play, I would quit trap shooting. Always choose a money or merchandise shoot over a trophy offering. Clubs that have only the type of shooters that posted above wouldn't attract my attendance or the crew that travels with me. Glad that these shooters participate, but there are the other 50% not represented here that enjoy playing options. We are the same people that enjoy a poker game, a casino, a dog or horse track. Gambling and money in the sport of trapshooting is traditional. Its the non money player that have become the exception.

    The lewis class purse is a gamble on where your score falls in line with others that have played. That, or you intend to shoot the high score for the day in that event. The only sure winner.

    The biggest problem with lewis class purses today is too many potential splits where if you win, the amount could be less than the entry fee paid. Option players would rather loose the entry fee that win less than the original fee. That in itself is the reason many don't buy in. Gambling with non gambling managers designing the program. They just don't get it. So any time you see too many classes and splits for the crowd in attendance, forget playing. Its a joke. Find some other place to shoot.

    Maltzie
     
  9. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Play the class purse when you are rapidly advancing and you are shooting better than class.

    If you are short yardage and shooting "hot" play the options.

    When you begin to plateau, stop pissing money away.

    Most of us have reached our level of incompetence and do not play options expect the occasional Lewis.

    Like Rick Barker said, you can have a lot of fun betting a few dollars/drinks/cokes etc with your friends. Most of us wind up shooting with guys who are at about our level, so you win some and loose some. The ribbing we give and take is good natured and adds to the fun too.

    Don Verna

    Don Verna
     
  10. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Play a $10 Lewis and get back $6.50 a few times, then quit because you'll have a reason ... lol ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  11. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Bob Hawkes:

    As I left home for college, my mom said, "A fool and his money are soon PARTYING." Both of our mothers were correct.

    sissy : )
     
  12. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    If you want to gamble, buy a lottery ticket. The payoff is much better and the odds are about the same for most shooters.

    EE
     
  13. Borg

    Borg Member

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    Thanks for all the tips and the few explanations. I agree with everyone. I don't have any expectation of being likely to win any options. I'll be happy as hell to advance from the 20 yrd line, or move up a class. Hell, I have only shot in three registered shoots at our local club.

    As an engineer who has the "bug" very bad, I want to understand all there is to know about the game. I have read the ATA rule book a couple times, and seek out advice from the local hot shoots all I can.

    Thanks again, but I must say that I feel like a twelve year old boy who said to his dad - Who are all those pretty ladies standing on the steet corner in the seedy side of town waving at all the men as they drive by? First he gets a backhand across the face, then told not to look at those ladies.

    Thanks dad!

    Peter
     
  14. alf174

    alf174 Member

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    Just circle the card.
     
  15. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "There are many kinds of money options to choose from when you have progressed to the point where you might want to play the money options. Remember, most clubs have their own kinds of options. They change the percentages, cost and various methods of payout. Ask the cashier to explain the option to you. Remember; don't play any money that you can’t afford to lose. For beginning shooters, the basic Lewis Class option is best suited for your skills. You can win money with this option with a very low score.

    Basic Lewis Class:
    When all the shooting has been completed, the scores are listed in numerical order from the highest to the lowest. They are then divided into as many groups as there are classes. For example, if there were 30 entries and 5 classes, there would be 6 scores in each class. The highest score in each class would then be the winner.

    High Gun System:
    The high gun system is often used where money is to be divided among several winners within a given class. For example the program may state that there will be 4 classes with 3 monies in each class i.e. 50-30-20% High Gun, 50% to the winner of first place in each class, 30% to second and 20% to third. Typical scores in Class A are as follows: 99,99,98,98, 97, 96,95. Under this system, the 3 high guns or, in other words, the 3 high scores win the money. The two 99s take 1st and 2nd monies, namely the 50% and 30%, or 40% each. The two 48s tie for 3rd place and split the 20%, getting 10% each.

    Percentage System:
    This system is another method of distributing money within a class, or where all scores are handled as one group. Here, if there are 3 monies, all those breaking in the 3 top places participate in the money division. Using the example above on a percentage basis, the 99s split 50%, or get 25% each, the two 98s split 30% or 15% each, and the one 97 gets 20%. Some Program Purses might pay 40-30-20-10% (paying 4 places), or 25-15-10-25-15-10% (paying 6 places).

    The Jack Rabbit System:
    In this system, each contestant pays a certain amount into the purse for each target he is going to shoot. For example, he might pay in 10 cents for each target in a 25-bird event making a total of $2.50. He will then get back 10 cents for each target he breaks i.e. $1.50 for breaking 15X25, $2.00 for breaking 20X25, etc. The amount which remains in the purse, represented by the targets that are missed, is then divided among the high guns, either according to the High Gun or Percentage System.

    The Rose System:
    Here each place is assigned a given number of points. The points may be varied to suit local conditions such as 4,3,2,1; 5,3,2,1; 7,5,3,1; or may run into five or six figures. This system maintains an equal ratio and pays best to the top scores no matter whether one of the contestants has a place by himself or not. As an example using the 5,3,2,1 distributions, say there is $18 in the purse. There is 1 first at 5 points, 2 seconds at 3 points each, 3 thirds at 2 points each, and 1 fourth at 1 point. This is a total of 18 points which, divided into the purse of $18, gives a point value of $1. The 1 first then is paid $5, each of the 2 seconds $3 etc.

    Options:
    It is quite common to have Optionals in conjunction with the regular events. As the name suggests, a shooter need not enter into this category of money prizes in order to shoot the regular events. Optionals are composed of additional money being placed in a side purse and distributed among the winners by one of the money division systems such as the Lewis, Percentage or Rose. Optionals are often played on parts of the program as well as the whole. For example in a 100-target event, the program might state that there will be $2 Optionals on the first 50 targets, $2 on the second 50, $2 on the middle 50, and $4 on the total 100. A shooter may play any one, or all, as he sees fit. Another version might be on the 25s.

    Ford Purse:
    Ford Purse Events can be added to any program with entry of $1 per event i.e. on each 25 targets, on each 50 targets and on total score. As the event progresses, ties on sub-events are automatically shot-off on next subsequent events. Where ties exist on total score, the purse usually is split among those tied, without shoot-off. At the Grand American the Ford Purses are used on the doubles and handicap events, and pay liberally to event winners."

    There's an options "manual" available for $9.95 at: http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11

    [​IMG]
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Options can be fun if you like to gamble on yourself or on others. If you don't enjoy gambling, options are not that much fun.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    It's that, Pat, but more. Gambling involves playing the odds. Most shooters don't understand their odds of winning. And crap like Lewis class options are just betting on random chance. That's not even gambling, it's just pi$$ing away money.

    The reason that there are far fewer people playing options these days is that shooters are actually getting a little smarter.

    EE
     
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