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please explain the "Big Bore" to me.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BD457, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    I've been trying to learn as I go and I have recently read a few remarks that I don't understand. They refer to bore size and exclaim "It's a big bore, great for handicap" or "You need a big bore for that" or "What's the bore?"
    Now I know what a bore is, but what I don't understand is how a larger bore relative to a smaller bore (in the same gauge) makes any difference. If the shot is choked at the end anyway, how does one bore being .007" more than a barrel of otherwise equal dimensions make any difference to the shooter? or is this one of those snake oil, wives tails?

    anxiously awaiting the responses to follow.

    Mike
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    S.O.

    Neil
     
  3. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    A 12 gauge bore is considered to be .727 (or there abouts). Most current barrels are over bored and range from about .735 to .750. Stan Baker was famous for his big bore barrels which were around .800. Bill Malcolm
     
  4. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    please explain the

    S.O.?
     
  5. skipsor

    skipsor Member

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    please explain the

    S.O.=snake oil.
     
  6. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    please explain the

    Thanks Neil. That explains it! :(
     
  7. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    please explain the

    BD....It is not snake oil at all. I would think that most shooters using tubes are using a barrel bored over .727". It has to do with less pellet deformation before they hit the choke. Neil and Skips, what's the bore of your guns? Click on the link. JMO

    Wayne
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    Let me add a little. It's snake oil when you hear "You have to upgrade to a larger bore-diameter if you want . . ." Among the top-performing guns I've tested, a couple were big bores, but the top was an 870 with 0.732. I couldn't take any set of ten patterns and say "Those look like they were shot from a 0.723 (Beretta) or 0.740 (Perazzi.) Or a 0.729 Eleven-hundred, for that matter.

    Good workmanship and good performance can come at any price and from any bore diameter. I've tested good- and not-so-good performing guns and never been able to attribute either finding to the specific bore-diameter of the arm.

    One of the really good performers I'm using now is a 391 Beretta with a 0.732 bore diameter. It has choke tubes and testing a half-dozen brands has shown, again, most very good, but not all.

    If I were buying a gun and had a choice I'd . . . well, I don't know which I'd choose. One thing's for sure, I wouldn't reject an otherwise attractive gun based on bore size alone.

    Neil
     
  9. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    please explain the

    OK. It is snake oil as far as performance is concerned, ut what the hell is it????? Jack
     
  10. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    So, If its all Snake Oil, why send your gun off to Wilkinson to have him do his thing to your old standard bore "Gun"??? I don't hear about anyone sending off their Browning Invector Plus guns or Beretta's Optima barreled guns to him!!! So now I am to believe that overbored guns with reduced forcing cones make absolutely no difference in your pattern. Just what do you think Wilkinson does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So should we all go back to 30 plus year old guns and buy shells that have the felt pads in them as well!!! Break em all Jeff
     
  11. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    please explain the

    I thought surely this thread was about Gene.
     
  12. racer

    racer TS Member

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    please explain the

    Jeff
    I think you have a sticky key. Maybe a new keyboard is in order- or did you spend all your money on custom barrel voodoo? :)
    Dan
     
  13. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    No Dan!!! I just bought a Browning with a overbored barrel w/ reduced forceing cones. No VooDoo here. Darn gum!!! LOL. break em all Jeff
     
  14. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    Martinpicker,

    In answer to your question, a "Big Bore" is any barrel with a bore diameter substantially larger than standard.

    Standard 12 gauge bore inside diameter is approximately 0.730". This is based on the original "gauge" standard of the diameter of a solid lead sphere weighing 1/12th of a pound.

    If you actually measure barrel inside diameters of a bunch of 12 gauge shotguns manufactured by different companies, you will find they will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I have measured as small as 0.723 to as large as 0.735 as a "standard" 12 gauge.

    Big bores can be "backbored" which means the barrel came from the factory with a standard bore diameter, but someone had machined it to be larger.

    They can also be "overbored" which means it came from the factory with the larger diameter. My daughter's 1100 trap barrel is factory overbored at 0.745".

    We're not usually talking huge differences. Often they are 0.735, 0.740, 0.750. Although I have heard of them as large as 0.800, though some argue 0.800 is too big, and you can get off-sounding bloopers, especially in the winter. On that, I cannot say.

    Keep in mind, a sheet of typewriter paper is about 0.005 inches thick, so that's what we're talking about here. Going from 0.730 to 0.740 means you have a barrel that is bigger in radius, by the thickness of a sheet of paper. That's all.

    Now, as to whether there is an appreciable difference in performance between standard bore barrels and big bore barrels, I tend to fall into the Neil Winston camp.

    Some will tell you that big bore barrels reduce recoil, improve patterns, and may quite possibly cure asthma.

    I am not convinced. I don't see how they can. I don't believe it will buy you a single target you wouldn't have gotten with a standard bore gun.
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    In 2006 I tested five Perazzis, two with "overbores" of about 0.740. The others were older, with bores around 0.727. All guns had chokes of about 0.040, plus or minus a couple of thousandths.

    While all the barrels shot just fine, there was no evidence that the larger bores were superior to the others.

    Overboredperazzis-std.gif

    Neil
     
  16. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    There is more to it than just the size of the bore, there are other dimensions which are critical to obtaining superior performance. HMB
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    please explain the

    BD, I think you haven't been around long, so I'll introduce you to one of the standard TS.com modes of discussion.

    I call it "going somewhere else" and hmb just posted an example but, really, it's practically universal.

    Because I wondered about enlarged bores too, I did a little work to find out. Someone else is curious, so I post my results which make no impression on the next responders. Without a trace of evidence, data, or even acknowledgement of the content of my post, we are told that only other kinds of data will answer the question. Usually the suggestion is more specific than Howard's: "If you had done this with 8's the results may well have reversed. "Why are you saying that all tests would end up like this?" "Well, tell me then why my cousin shoots his Krieghoff better than his Mossberg!"

    None of these comments, of course, have the least to do with what I posted but some people feel compelled to type something even if they didn't understand what was said, and so just opt to talk about something else.

    But I have thought again about what I would order had I the choice, and I guess it would be a smaller bore. It's almost sure to shoot fine, but if were not happy with it - as sometimes happens - it would still have enough "meat" left in the barrel for one of the tuners to make something good of it, as have two of them for me already.

    Neil
     
  18. mcneeley5

    mcneeley5 Member

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    please explain the

    I think Stan Baker had quite a part in pioneering the Big Bore philosophy, good,bad, or ugly!
     
  19. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    please explain the

    REAL Big Bore guns are .800 all the rest are wanna be's Period Jeff
     
  20. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    please explain the

    Big bores have an effect on performance and perceived recoil. It has been my observation that larger bores feel like they kick less. one example was a K32 with special pigeon barrels that I had. Built by krieghoff with a .718 bore they would knock the snot out of you. I have a set of .750 custom produced peraxxi MX barrels that hardly have any noticible recoil.

    When it comes to performance I have found that the larger bores are actually less efficient with light loads those under 1 1/8. Big bores shine when your shooting lots of shot 1 3/8 and above. For the average trap shooter ......726 to .735 should have negligible effect in the guns performance and it would be more load development or experimentation to find the load that performs best for that given barrel.

    Just my observations.

    Joe
     
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