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Pitch--Question.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DENNISMASTROLIA1, Sep 21, 2009.

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  1. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    I have read here and in several good books regarding gun "pitch" and how to measure for it.Most info said to measure at 28 inches on the bbl.I have a friend who believes that he can walk on water when it comes to "shotguns" and he recently said that pitch is always measured at the mezzle regardless of bbl length.I think that the angle will be the same if measured from 28" or from 34". He also pointed out to me (while walking on the lake) that suppose you had a 26" bbl then what would you do? I still contend that the "angle of pitch" would be the same.Please help me to "dunk him". Thanks--Dennis Mastrolia.
     
  2. goose2

    goose2 Well-Known Member

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    The first thing I would do is have your friend show you he can walk on water then I would read Rollin's book called stock fitters bible. It will tell you in there.
    I think your friend is all wet.
     
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  3. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Brillion, WI
    goose2 - great suggestion. Seriously though, thank you.

    The best way to measure pitch is in degrees - the angle of the butt to the axis of the bore. Some people measure it that way but in this country, "inches" of pitch is more common.

    Inches are measured with the gun standing on its butt and the receiver or action making contact with a vertical surface. The distance of the rib to the vertical surface is the pitch. For a basis of comparison, the distance of the 28" point on the barrel to the vertical surface is commonly used.

    There is also a difference of opinion in the definition of an increase of pitch - does it mean that the toe of the butt extends farther from the trigger or does it move closer to it? I define pitch with the toe of the stock being closer ot the trigger when pitch is increased. (Dennis and Pat will beg to differ.)

    In the book, I define positive pitch in inches when the barrel is away from a vertical surface with the gun standing on its butt or recoil pad. If the bore axis is 90 degrees to the butt, there is "0" pitch. The same is true when the rib touches the vertical surface with the gun standing on its butt - no or 0 pitch. (Then there's the problem with tapered or slanting ribs on trap guns versis ribs that are parallel to the axis of the bore.)

    You are correct when you say that the pitch, when measured as an angle, would not change with barrel length. 26" or 26', the pitch would be the same angle but would obviously change if it were measured in inches - the problem with measuring pitch in inches. (Try locating the axis of the bore, though.)

    Rollin
     
  4. traphouse52

    traphouse52 Member

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    When it comes to pitch, the most important hing is to get full contact with thshoulder over the full length of the pad/butplate. Toe closer to trigger is negative itch and what most people need. Not enough pitch is the most common reason for face slap and the gun slipping on the shoulder during recoil.
    Don't worry so much about the measurement, just make sure pad makes full contact. Add washers under top of pad till it has full contact. Then have a gunsmith trim to that change or get a tapered spacer from one of the suppliers that will do the same thing.
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to ask Rolland a question, please. The scenario:

    The shooter crawls the stock, bends over drastically at the waste, holds low on the house, breaks sorbathane pads off about an inch from the top of the heel, complains that his gun slipped down off his pad and wears an inch diameter hole low on his vest pad.

    He's not going to change his style. How would you fix him?
     
  6. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Location:
    Brillion, WI
    traphouse52 - I agree with your first line about full contact of the pad with the shoulder. Then the problem with using "negative" and "positive" to describe pitch, begins. Not to pick nits but "toe closer to the trigger is negative pitch and what most people need" is something that most shooters will agree with.

    Then the problem line: "Not enough pitch is the most common reason for face slap and the gun..." seems to contradict the "toe closer to the trigger is negative pitch" line. More pitch (by your, Dennis' and Pat's definition extends the toe of the pad farther from the trigger when that is often a cause of face slap.

    I agree with you when you say, "don't worry about the measurement, just make sure the pad makes full contact." I would only add that it is best when the pad makes simultaneous contact top to bottom with the shoulder when the gun is mounted.

    What is needed is the elimination of the terms, "positive" and "negative" pitch because of the different definitions that are used. It would be best to use angles to the bore to describe pitch but most of us are unable to measure it.

    Barry - I tend to believe that the approach to this guy is described by the eleventh word in your second line, "waste." It would probably describe the time spent trying to work with this guy if he refused to consider correcting his shooting form. The phrase "silk purse from a sow's ear" seems to apply.

    His only complaint is that his gun slipped down off his pad (whatever that means). With the toe of the stock sticking out too far already (hole in vest), his forward lean has to be involved with the gun slipping. If he won't change his form and shoot with a more upright posture, he needs to seek therapy and learn to enjoy his gun "slipping down of his pad" and wearing a hole low on his vest pad. After all, a one-inch hole isn't a big hole - it's only one inch and not nearly large enough to put a fist through.

    Rollin
     
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