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pitch on a normal trap gun?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by smsnyder, Nov 16, 2007.

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  1. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    i was wonder hoe much pitch the normal trap gun has. rabbit guns have little or no pitch and when you point barrel it is going down.
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    About 2 to 3 inches of negative pitch. HMB
     
  3. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    if you put your gun against a flat wall with stock in the ground and rib against the wall i find that most pitch is about 1 inch.. the front of the barrel will be one inch away from the wall. i did it today on kolar, kreighoff and perazzi.
     
  4. cleboje

    cleboje Member

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    Pitch is normally measured at the 28 inch mark on a barrel, correct Rollin?
     
  5. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Correct. The 28-inch point is used for more accurate pitch comparisons for guns with different barrel lengths. In Europe pitch is measured in degrees, requiring a more complex procedure requiring the use of a tool sometimes referred to as a degree-thing in non-mechanical, non-engineering circles.

    There is an interesting story about the use of the 28-inch point on barrels when measuring pitch on 26-inch skeet barrels when they were more popular. Gunsmiths had small white mice trained to hold soda straws over their heads to mimic the missing two inches. This method is still occasionally used today when measuring pitch on coach and riot guns.

    Quiz: Would the number of degrees increase or decrease when the stock is cut to solve the problem of inadequate pitch, which is causing cheek slap?

    Rollin
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Define "Normal" ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    MIA;

    You are confusing cheek slap with hemorrhoids. It is hemorrhoids that 1100s relieve so effectively.

    Rollin
     
  8. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Steve:

    You have to guess or position the gun on the butt and hold it so the wood but is parallel with the floor.

    What the pitch measures is not important. What is important is how the pitch on the stock allows the butt to make contact with the shoulder. It is best when the upper heel of the pad applies the majority of the rearward force during reboil to keep barrel rise to a minimum and eliminate cheek slap.

    Rollin
     
  9. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    <I>" Do you think that's what the Rocker pad was designed for, to minimize the possibility of a wrong pitch ?"</i>

    The Rocker pad was designed for sporting clays shooters and others that call for their targets in the "gun down" position. The convex shape makes it less likely that the pad will snag on clothing as the gun is shouldered.

    Morgan
     
  10. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Basically what the "Rocker" pad and BTW also the "Modified Trap" pads do is to effectivly increase the pitch without the need to cut the wood, if that's your fancy.

    John C. Saubak
     
  11. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Steve W - I don't know why convex pads were designed, probably as an attempt to allow shooters to believe their stocks fit the shoulder well when they are, in the best of cases, only a compromise, as John Saubak stated. (They're easier to deal with than changing the pitch and creating cast at the toe on a stock when it is needed.

    I have not seen a shoulder pocket that is concave to the extent of many of the convex pads but then again, the number of shoulder pockets I have seen closely numbers well below 500.

    For those who like them, they're fine. The main disadvantage I see is that they lower the point on the butt where the pressure of rearward motion makes contact with the shoulder and they encourage a low gun mount, below the collarbone. They do however allow the pad to pivot upward for overhead shots, which is beneficial for sporting clays shooters.

    Rollin
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    DevilsAdvocate- Pitch can be altered by the fit of the stock to the receiver but in doing this the drop of the heel will also be altered. Pitch can be adjusted independently by cutting the butt at a slight angle. One to two inches of negative pitch, or down pitch, is common. Real pitch, your term, not mine, is the angle of the butt to the barrel.

    An individuals proper pitch is now best determined by feel as the gun is being mounted and after it is mounted. Once I tried to come up with a system using a small piece of pressure sensitive paper mounted between two sheets or copy paper. This unusual idea did not give any useful results but it did make a stain on both me and my shirt.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    I took my rocker pad off and than measured pitch. once desired pitch was made (Stock cut ANGLE ). rocker pad was reinstalled. Pitch makes a huge difference how you look down the barrel. ROILLIN is right, there are many secrets in stock building. I am building such a stock now and it takes time to build a custom stock right. One mistake and the $2500.00 piece of wood is scrap. There are not many people out there who build custom stocks. When i mean custom, you are fitted with stocked and than stock is shaved a little, refitted stocked is shaved a little. Shoot gun and stock is shave a little. This may take 10 trips to the gunsmith.( Any other way of building a custom stock is guessing.) A custom stock does everything a PFS does but in wood. The only problem a pfs has is no pitch and looks like a i stool parts from a guy with one leg or arm. Pfs are good and get the job done. LOL
     
  14. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    In my opinion, other than not being a beautiful piece of wood, the PFS has only one shortcoming. The stock is a magnificant piece of engineering and adjustability but there are no instructions included concerning how to make or set the adjustments for shooters of various sizes and shapes.

    Years ago I sent Vern an early copy of my "stock fitting guide" and suggested we work something out so he could include one with each stock. I received no reply.

    More recently, to see what the PFS instructions included by way of correct dimensions for different shooters, I traded a copy of my "Stock Fitting Secrets" book to Jack/MIA for a copy of the current PFS instructions. They are outstanding for information on how to change dimensions but still contain nothing about choosing the dimensions that will result a well fitting stock for a correct shooting form.

    I have sold a number of books to PFS owners but I still suspect that many owners of this fine stock do not adjust them properly to make their guns fit well or that they adjust them to fit a flawed shooting form that crates a limitation to their shooting success.

    Rollin
     
  15. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    The "Rocker" pad exists only so those guys that think a Trap gun should have zero pitch can have the wood cut to zero and then the "Rocker" pad allows them to shoot the damn thing without getting the crap kicked out'a 'em.

    John C. Saubak
     
  16. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Rollin and all,

    My 303 trap gun has an older trapdude.com pad that looks like the rocker pad above. It has what looks to me like a lot of barrel rise and slaps my cheek pretty hard. I bought a new pad and a couple of positive spacers, thinking that was the correct adjustment needed.

    Have I erred?

    Danny
     
  17. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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  18. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    I've been wrangling with pitch for about a week now. I've been putting together a new K-gun and I've been having inconsistant gun mounts and canting during swings. In reading Rollins book I descided to check to pitch. The K-gun has negative 1/4" pitch and my old CItori Plus has positive 3/8" pitch. I'm a barrel chested shooter. The K-guns heel was digging in to me. I felt the difference. I've been shaving the bottom of the K-guns Kick-Eez pad. Getting better mounts know. I have consistant preasure in my shoulder socket.
    Dave T.
     
  19. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Danny,

    I don't think it is so much an error as an oversight. The tapered spacers you are using are ineffective on a rocker pad. Most of the rearward force during recoil is on the raised center of the "bump" of the pad and that puts it farther below the level of the barrel than would a flat pad mounted even with the top of your shoulder.

    The rearward force during recoil would then be on your collarbone, which is nearer the bore than it is now.

    That is making a few assumptions, which could be right or wrong so uncertainty remains as to the cause(s) of your cheek-slap because there can be more than one cause, the one I addressed.

    Dave T.,

    Are you sure it is the heel that was digging into your chest and not the toe?

    Rollin
     
  20. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Rollin,

    I bought a new Kick-Eez pad. I won't be using the old trapdude.com pad.

    Danny
     
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