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PITCH of STOCK? PLEASE EXPLAIN..........

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Martinpicker, Aug 19, 2011.

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  1. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    I need help understanding the effect of the pitch of a stock.

    Let me begin by taking a shot at the terminology...a stock with more pitch will have a greater drop at heel than a stock with less pitch which will drop less at heel and thus be straighter....right?

    Next, please tell me how the two compare. How does pitch effect recoil, point of impact, fit to the shooter, etc.

    I have two different trap guns and one has quite a bit more drop at the heel than the other. I am trying to find out what effect the difference causes.

    Thanks, Martinpicker (Jack Farrow)
     
  2. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    wrong, drop is comb height, pitch is angle of butt
     
  3. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Pitch relates to the square cut or angled cut of the but plate and the bore axis of the gun.

    Take the butt pad off the gun and stand it on the floor, with the reciever of the gun touching the wall, and the gun butt flat on the floor, you will observe one of 3 things in regards to pitch.

    1. If the gun barrel or rib (other than a taperd rib, from chamber to muzzle) is flat against the wall, that gun is said to have no (0) or neutral pitch.

    2. If the barrel of the gun tips away from the wall, that gun has down pitch.

    3. If the barrel touches the wall and the reciever does not, that gun has up or pitch.

    Pitch plays an important part of gun fit, poi and felt recoil. Different people require different angles of pitch in their stock.

    Here is the techincal term:

    "Pitch - The distance vertically from the muzzle of a shotgun to a line drawn at right angles to the but and tangent to the standing breech. ...(reference to drawing)...usually measured by placing the butt flat on a floor, with the breech touching the wall, and measuring the distance from the wall to the edge of the muzle. Pitch, in comination with pull nad drop, determines the angle of the barrel when the gun is properly mounted."
     
  4. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Thank you so much. I guess what I am asking about has more to do with "drop at heel" than "pitch", although I understand that the two are closely related. So what effect does more "drop at heel" have on fit and mounting? Jack
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Alot depends on how long your neck is. HMB
     
  6. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Not surprised I could not locate my source book


    I corrected my post and used NRA reference on up/down pitch and deleted ref to pos/neg.

    I cannnot rely on my memory anymore.

    Thanks
     
  7. Go Fish

    Go Fish Member

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    Good explanation of Pitch in the 14th issue of TrapshootingUSA magazine. Explains very good what it is, what effect it has on recoil and a very easy way to check pitch. Info is in an article on stock fittings.
     
  8. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Is that the most recent issue?

    The past issues can be read on line.
     
  9. Go Fish

    Go Fish Member

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    Last month's issue. Can be read online,
     
  10. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Article said a down pitch of 3 degrees would be translated as -3 or 87. I'm so confused.
     
  11. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    It can have an effect on two shot games.
     
  12. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Jack,

    Pitch confuses a lot of people. Some use "up" and "down" to describe it while others us positive and negative (with different definitions by different people).

    Pitch is the angle formed by the butt and the rib, however it is described. Europeans most often measure pitch in degrees (close to 90). In the U.S., we are more likely to measure pitch in inches (the distance of the barrel's 28" point to the vertical surface when the gun is resting on its butt and the receiver against that vertical surface.

    The pitch is correct for a shooter when, using a normal shooting posture, the whole recoil pad makes simultaneous contact with the shoulder as the gun is being mounted.

    Pitch can cause problems: When it is wrong, most often because the bottom of the recoil pad, the "toe," sticks out too far, the toe can be driven into the shoulder during recoil. When the toe of the recoil pad protrudes too far it can also cause barrel rise to increase during recoil and cause the cheek to be impacted by the rising comb (top surface of the stock) during recoil.

    The drop at the heel dimension is the distance from the top of the butt or recoil pad (the heel) up to the level of the rib. This is different from the "drop at the comb," which is also measured from the rib but in drop at the comb measurements, it is the distance down to the front of the comb (the nose) or where the shooter places his or her cheek on the comb.

    When guns fit shooters, a greater drop at the heel is needed by shooters with longer than average necks and/or those who mount their guns with the recoil pad below the collarbone.

    The greater the drop at the heel, the greater will be the barrel rise during recoil, (all things being equal). The correct drop at the heel allows shooters to shoot using a naturally erect shooting posture with its many benefits.

    The drop at the comb is an important dimension since, with snug pressure by the cheek, it must position the eye to look along the surface of the rib or for trap shooting, slightly down-onto the rib so that rising trap targets do not need to be covered with the muzzle to provide the necessary forward lead.

    Rollin
     
  13. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rollin.


    I'm one of those that refers to down as neg.

    I understsnd now why it is better to say up/down.
     
  14. Ray Collins

    Ray Collins Active Member

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    Buy Rollin's Book; you will not fine a better resource for gun fitting.


    Doc
     
  15. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Rollin, Thanks so much. Very good explaination. I was already pretty comfortable with "drop at comb", but the effect of more "drop at heel" perplexed me. Thanks to all. Jack
     
  16. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Here's a picture of a stock that needed some of the pitch removed, yes, it was too much for the shooter and caused the gun to rise into the shooter's face. The wedge closest to the wood took care of the problem. The red line on the butt pad shows the final results. The gun came with just the butt pad you see. Since the butt pad is flat (with no pitch itself), the black line next to the wood represents the old pitch.

    Use a protractor (remember those?) laid against the picture or computer screen to measure the angle. I can't find mine right now or I'd give you the measurement on this gun. It's something like 5 or 6 degrees. A little goes a long way.

    You can have too little or too much pitch for your build. Depending upon what comes with the gun, you might have to go one way or the other. If you start with none, you may see the problem go away and then come back as you add more and more pitch. Cutt 'er back and your done. Washers are a good way to go when testing. You'll need a series of different length screws from the hardware store.

    Joe

    joekuhn_2008_03031.jpg
     
  17. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Rick, Doc, Jack,

    You are welcome.

    Joe,

    If I am interpreting your fine drawing correctly on my 15" laptop screen, the stock was lengthened slightly at the toe with the thickest part of a tapered spacer at the bottom toe. If I'm right, that is unusual when trying to eliminate cheek slap. More often, the stock needs to be lengthened at the heel (thickest part of the tapered spacer at the top).

    Assuming my interpretation of the change in pitch is correct, the entire butt must have been sliding up on the shoulder during recoil to cause cheek slap - or something else was causing it.

    Rollin
     
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