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Pitch as it relates to felt recoil?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by claybrdr, Apr 4, 2012.

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  1. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Years ago a local stock man changed the pitch on the K-80 I was shooting at the time from approx. 3" positive pitch to 1.5". He did this by measuring a point on the barrel 26" from the breech face and cutting the butt of the stock accordingly. I always felt the recoil was noticeably reduced as a result.

    Since then I have mostly shot custom stocks on my Perazzis and the pitch has always been in the 1.5" to 2" range and they seem to kick me less than a factory K-80. Coincidence? Anyway, I just got another K80 to play with and the pitch is approx 2.8" and while I shot it very well it seems to recoil more than my Perazzzi. I'm somewhat reluctant to mess with it since it "shoots where I look" but if altering the pitch would reduce recoil without changing the impact point I may have it done. (this may be a Rollin Oswald question)

    What say you stockmakers?
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You can change the pitch without cutting the stock. Put some washers between the butt pad and stock. Add washers on to the screw until you get the desired pitch. If you still shoot the gun well then you can get a custom made spacer. HMB
     
  3. johnpe

    johnpe Member

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    About 60 years ago, I went to a pitch down of 1" - from whatever length of barrels - and have been very satisfied with the results in the nearly straight back recoil and lack of face slap. I can use a pitch down of about two inches, but at three inches, I get a bunch of face slap and shooting that gun becomes uncomfortable. Whenever I purchase a new gun, the first thing it gets is a new recoil pad, now kickeze, with pitch set at 1" down and the length of pull set at 14 3/8". This change makes it very easy for me to shoot different guns with different action types.

    Johnpe
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Washers and spacers will change the pitch but they will also change the length of the butt stock and the location of the shooter's head on the comb. It's been shown that a 1/4" change in butt stock length can make up to a 1" difference in the location of the head on the comb. If the stock is already the right length, this just adds a new variable to the situation that the shooter will have to try to compensate for. I suppose that's why stock makers cut stocks.

    Keller
     
  5. minnship8

    minnship8 Well-Known Member

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    3rd product down...pitch spacers.

    Regards,

    Chip Porter
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I believe the right amount of pitch is when the top and bottom of your recoil pad touch the shoulder pocket at the same time. In my case this turns out to be about 3 inches down pitch and less than that makes the gun kick more.
     
  7. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Evidently Krieghoff believes the same since they seem to have that as a standard.
     
  8. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    Pitch and it's effect is the most misunderstood part of stock making. Some big name stock makers build most of their stocks with the same pitch. Is every shooter built the same? Does every shooter hold the gun the same way? You will need to experiment and find what pitch works for you.
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    An alternative solution to the pitch problem. Leave the gun alone, instead get botox injected into your shoulder so the recoil pad makes 100 percent contact. HMB
     
  10. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    claybrdr,

    Changing the pitch will affect POI, If and Only If the pitch-change changes the alignment of your shooting eye.

    If the positioning of the butt on the shoulder remains the same after the pitch change, the point of impact will remain the same.

    If changing the pitch results in a change to the positioning of the butt on the shoulder, there by changing the positioning of your shooting eye, than a change of POI will result.

    Michael Goines
     
  11. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    So how do you measure the pitch of a unsingle gun? I read you measure pitch via the trigger to the top and bottom of the pad?
     
  12. steele

    steele TS Member

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    I don't think pitch can be calculated correctly by measuring at the barrel. The old way of putting the butt on the floor & then measuring the distance to a wall is basically an "urban myth/old wives tale". First, how do you get a consistant measurement? At what point on the barrel do you measure? If you measure from the end, how do you calculate for different barrel length? For instance, the measurement for a 34" barrel would be greater than the measurement for a 28" on the same reciever. That would indicate a greater/lesser pitch, but the stock never changed, so the pitch never changed, because the angle relation of the butt to the centerline on the bore never changed. Pitch is the angle from the centerline of the bore in reference to the buttplate/recoil pad. Only two ways to change pitch: change bore angle or butt angle.
    If pitch is added/subtracted, LOP should not be affected either. As the pad already has a contact point, the pad is then angled +/- to fill the gap at the shoulder. This filling in does not add LOP, just full contact.
    I spoke about this in detail with Dennis Devault. Maybe he can add more detail to what I am trying to explain.
    Butch from Pgh
     
  13. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    Calkid,

    Pitch is the angle of the recoil pad to the rib.

    Lean you shotgun against the wall such that the recoil pad is flat against the floor. The "pitch" is angle the the barrel makes in respect to the wall.

    There are different ways of measuring and expressing non-neutral pitch; up, down, negative, positive. It can be measured in inches of the muzzle from the wall or a inches a certain place along the rib. The most accurate way is in degrees or radians of angle, as it is irrespective of barrel length.

    If the face of the recoil pad is perpendicular to the rib, pitch is neutral. The rib will be flat against the wall with the butt=plate flat against the floor.

    If the muzzle is touching the wall this is "up" or positive pitch, I don't know anyone who shoots "up" pitch as the toe of the pad would be digging into your shoulder.

    If with the butt-plate flat against the floor the receiver is against the wall and the muzzle is away from the wall, this is down pitch. Most guns have some amount of down pitch to match the angle of the shoulder. If simply measured at the muzzle in inches, you can get different measurements depending on barrel length. A 28" barrel will show less pitch than a 34", even though the pitch angle is the same. Which is why 26" is mentioned above, so that there is a common point of measurement.

    Michael
     
  14. johnboy

    johnboy Member

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    Angle of the butt to the axis of the bore.
     
  15. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    I guess I should have prefaced that I understand pitch and how it relates to the gun. However, I see some are talking about 2" or 3". What is that measurement and how was it achieved?

    Ok I did a very crude drawing. Is this how pitch is measured?
    [​IMG]


    Bryan
     
  16. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Body type is important in determining pitch!
     
  17. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Are you calling me fat?
     
  18. timberflint

    timberflint Member

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    Link above may be of some use.


    http://www.shootingsportsman.com/technoid-talk/2011/june/pitch-the-real-numbers
     
  19. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Pitch is the angle of the recoil pad surface relative to the path of recoil (ie. the bore centerline). The rib is irrelevant, especially on guns that don't have one.

    Keller
     
  20. Onceabum

    Onceabum TS Member

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    When asked, many years ago, a question concerning pitch, Big Leo answered with these now famous words, "I don't know what pitch is; I don't care what pitch is." At least that's what I read in a trapshooting magazine.

    BB
     
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