1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Piston carbine Stag rifle - what is it?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 410 JIM, Nov 10, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 410 JIM

    410 JIM TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    176
    The rod is a replacement and an improvement over the gas tube in a typical AR format weapon making them much more reliable especially when they get dirty in combat. Something along the lines of an AK47. It provides the energy for the action to work.
    Jim
     
  2. GSPBirdDog

    GSPBirdDog TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    66
    The typical gas tube style is a true blow back design with most of the carbon build up going into the gas tube and chamber....thus cause reliability problems. The gas piston style is designed to operate the bolt but also let the gases out at the right time and disperse them outside the gun...and typically in the handguard.I hope this answered your question.
     
  3. setter

    setter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    663
    To say it another way, the operation of the M-16 sends the gas directly against the bolt carrier. The piston design houses the "gas" part in the fore arm and uses a transfer rod to operate the bolt. Also the "piston' is usually adjustable, so that, you can tune the operation for different loads or for using a suppressor. So, the piston holds the promise of better relability over a longer period of time.
     
  4. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,736
    The piston setup really only benefits short barreled sub machine guns, as they will destroy bolts due to the extreme pressures from the short gas port position.

    For most of the rifles and carbines in use it's more of a gimmick than a benefit. The Army was not even sold on the need for it....

    I believe off the top of my head that the technology is over 40-45 yrs old and every now an then someone tries to reinvent the wheel.
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    For most users, there is no advantage to a piston AR unless they really don't want to clean the bolt and carrier assembly on a regular basis.

    And yes, why reinvent the wheel? There are AK variants made in 223. And if you want a piston powered 308, get an FAL.
     
  6. oz

    oz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,817
    Stag is not the only company making piston ar's. the old (direct impingement) ar's are great. the new piston style is an upgrade. buy it, you'll like it. oz
     
  7. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,736
    Sportshot

    To clarify what I meant to say....Is that the piston setup helps in a SMG application, as a gas driven SMG burns up bolts. The shorter the barrel the more the need for a piston system......with 16"+ barrels it has little benefit and is more a must-have gadget.

    It's still gas driven, affects accuracy, and affects recoil.....no free lunch with it.
     
  8. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    942
    I don't think the barrel gets as hot as quick with piston type action.
     
  9. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,736
    The bolt carrier stays cool with the piston system on an AR....But the necessity and benefits of the system are debatable. The system has come and gone many times in the past and the AR platform looks to be on the way out with the military so the AR marketers are looking for business and sales.
     
  10. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,482
    Just the thought of that metal to metal smack between the bolt and the piston mechanism makes me cringe. Though, I'm sure they have the wear and tear and metal fatigue part figured out. Would seem to be easier to clean, but more moving parts. Sounds like a toss up.
     
  11. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    439
    I have one piston AR (LMT piston) and many gas impingement rifles and I can tell you the idea of the piston dramatically affecting accuracy and recoil is absurd. I know many claim that the piston slamming the bolt back creates more muzzle jump and therefore negatively affects recoil and accuracy, I have not noticed this in the slightest. I was apprehensive of the piston system when I bought it so I did a side-by-side comparison and I could perceive no additional recoil. In fact, I was nearly just as accurate with my 16" LMT piston as I am with my target AR. Personally, I do not see NEED for a piston AR but please do not believe all the scare tactics from those who prefer the traditional gas impingement platform.

    By the way, if you MUST have a piston AR, I would not recommend a Stag, I would go either POF, LWRC, or LMT. Stag has a reputation as a tier II company and will not hold its value nearly as well as some of the more proven piston platforms.
     
  12. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,736
    Spud....The poster asked for honest answers about the system.....He was given accurate answers.....Your reference to our accurate answers as "SCARE TACTICS" is totally uncalled for....I for one am getting tired of these attempts at referring to some of us as liars.....
     
  13. powder2burn

    powder2burn TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Folks forget the Eugene Stoner spent years developing the AR15/M16 rifle. Stoner first developed the cartridge and then built the gas system and then the balance to the weapon; in that order. Stoner did all the early development work when he worked for Armalite Division of Fairchild Aircraft. The AR15/M16 the Army purchased was built by Colt who made some changes to the Stoner original. Stoner had virtually no input with Colt. Early problems with the M-16 in Vietnam were directly related to changes the Army Materials Command ordered in the powder used for the 5.56X45 ammunition; from IMR stick to ball. The ball powder also sped up speed of the bolt unlocking and action timing. The Army's solution was to order a "forward assist" built onto the rifle and changing the buffer, instead of using the correct IMR stick powder. The Army also ignored Stoner when he stated that the chamber should be chrome lined. The Army eventually got around to doing just that. The Army ran into additional problems when they developed a shortened version, which altered the timing of the action. In a semi-auto most of these are never an issue, however the M16 was designed as an automatic and all these changes resulted in a poorly performing weapon that got too many Americans killed. Most of the "M16 issues" arose because Stoner was ignored. All the same, most of the issues have been worked out, for the most part. However the use of a "piston" in an AR-15/M16 is a solution were there is no problem. Buyer Beware!!

    Rodney
     
  14. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,002
    My Kel-Tec SU 16C is set up with the gas block and piston assembly. Chamber and bolt stay very clean. To clean the piston head, gas block, and spring is maybe a 5 minute job. The rifle is 100% reliable with this gas system.

    Any rifle with a gas block on the barrel won't be as accurate as a regular AR because of barrel vibrations. While my gun is no tack driver, its still very accurate and reliable. Ak's are survival guns not paper punchers. This is a proven gas operated self loading system. Wayne
     
  15. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    439
    Sorry 221, was truely not meaning to offend you. There are alot of people out there though that are afraid of any changes to the Black rifle and will try to discredit them without even trying them. Im not trying to imply this is what you did but there is alot of that out there. I am certainly not calling you a liar. Simply I have used both platforms extensively and alot of the criticisms of the piston guns are unfounded.
     
  16. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,044
    My M1 Garand and my M14 were both piston and rod operated.
     
  17. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,226
    I thought STAG had a life time warrenty on their rifles? What is a teir II company ? I bought a STAG because of the no BS phone calls and emails that I had back and forth with them when decideing about whos AR I should buy. Im still waiting for a email response from S&W, Bushmaster , RRA , colt , and several others. From what I learned STAG Dad builds the parts the Son builds the rifles. mine has been flawless with all ammo even wolf steel case.
    Now from what I have seen with the piston style is a bolt that runs cooler, a lower that stays cleaner longer and no gases out of the back of the charge handle....thats it. if you are dumping large #s of rounds down range quickly it may be for you. kinda reminds me of ported choke tubes.....better or not, discuss. What you have to worry about is the EBR syndrom, yes you may not really need a piston style AR but you may just end up with a upper with one!

    I will say now that Im into ARs a bit....the upper assembly or half is comparable to choke tubes, how many do you really need and of what type/style/end use

    I recently got a 22lr AR upper half....
     
  18. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,645
    Leo you are correct and you can add the Ruger Mini 14 and the Ak74, and all of them need extensive work to be as accurate as a garden variety gas impingement system AR15.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.