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Perceived Recoil

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bird30, Oct 27, 2011.

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  1. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    I am probably going to open a can of worms. Useing the same hull, the same wad, the same primer and the same amount of shot why do I feel a different recoil with a different powder at the same speed. Now I have read all the comments before about ejecta. I have notice in my long shooting career that single based powders (like PB) has less recoil than double base powers like (Greendot). Now you may tell me there is no difference but my shoulder tells me different. I would like to know the truth why shooters say to them there is no difference while others say they can tell a big difference.

    Dave
     
  2. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    I am probably going to open a can of worms. Useing the same hull, the same wad, the same primer and the same amount of shot why do I feel a different recoil with a different powder at the same speed. Now I have read all the comments before about ejecta. I have notice in my long shooting career that single based powders (like PB) has less recoil than double base powers like (Greendot). Now you may tell me there is no difference but my shoulder tells me different. I would like to know the truth why shooters say to them there is no difference while others say they can tell a big difference.

    Dave
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Because its probably not REALLY at the same speed.
     
  4. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Don't always believe what you read in reloading books!!
     
  5. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    This is going to get ugly again.

    Just shoot the loads that work for you, and feel less recoil. If there is a difference in your mind, that is all that matters. I feel a difference, and notice no difference in perfomance, between the kickers and less felt recoil loads. The reason why I think that is happening are good enough for me. I do not want verification. No disrespect meant at all, just trying to stop another argument from occuring. Jon
     
  6. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Because the human nervous system responds in a manner indifferent to thy neighbor, brother, buddy.
     
  7. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    My $.02 = The the slower burning powders, DO spread the recoil over a greater length of time (pretty miniscule) than the "fast" burning powders and it is alleged by many that they can tell this difference. I can not tell the difference but then, as Sir timb99 suggests above, cook up two examples of which we speak and the likelihood of precisely similar velocity is very unlikely; even when checked on a homeowner's chronograph......breakemall.
     
  8. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Pheasantmaster nails it.

    Wayne
     
  9. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

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    +++Dave, If you have run a blind test and identify single based powders as being lower perceived recoil then I think you may be on to something..if you have not done such a test you are probably joy riding your mind...SMOKIT
     
  10. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    If you EXPECT to perceive less recoil, you probably will.

    The noise that a discharge makes also has an effect on the recoil that the shooter feels. Reduce the noise, reduce the perceived recoil.

    Mike K
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    So if you use really big ear plugs there will be no recoil. HMB
     
  12. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    There have been "blind" tests done. Load one shell hand the gun over the tester shoots it hands it back and shoots a different load ask which is which. Results were not better than 50-50 IIRC. If you think that is a valid test then there ya go. If you think your shoulder can tell the difference after shooting a 400 shell day then you have your own answer, better to just keep it to yourself or risk the wrath of the Newtonian Science and Temperance League.
     
  13. Gapper

    Gapper TS Member

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    There is a lot going on during recoil, and most people fail to give consideration to all the variables involved, even during "scientific testing".

    I recently reviewed articles in the July and September 1937 of The American Rifleman magazine, where testing of solid bronze bullets resulted in some odd findings. Among those characteristics noted by F.C. Ness and Elmer Keith was this tidbit (Sept '37 p36) by Ness:

    "Keith found, as I long ago did, that recoil was peculiar, abrupt and quickly absorbed by the mass of the weapon."

    Noteworthy is the fact 75 years since these tests were done, the work of both Ness and Keith is still highly regarded, and they felt it neccesary to include this small and almost insignificant information in their report. It's actually an amazing observation. Noticed is the lack of general remarks such as "recoil felt a little lighter"; as these fellows tried to distill results of their experimentation to the finest degree, all in an era when our computers couldn't be dreamed of. Great men, indeed. GAP
     
  14. slic lee

    slic lee Active Member

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    These people have no idea of what they say!
    The difference is one is like being punched in the shoulder and the other a firm shove.
    I proved the difference many years ago between Hodgdon powder and VitaVouri powder at a long range shoot at Markham Park in Florida.
    The two rifle powders, the same bullet, same OAL, same exact amount of powder, POI was the same, Hodgdon was hard recoil, VV was a firm shove.
    Shooting 40 to 50 rounds per day, difference was VV was more expensive,Hodgdon had a sharp pointy pressure spike and VV was a curved arch like black powder.
    Read about VV powder before comments. Lee
     
  15. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    An imagined effect has the same end result as a real effect. If you truly believe you have a recipie for a special shell that has less recoil than other loadings of similar performance then by all means stick with it and keep the faith.
     
  16. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Did not take long for the blind tests. I am not sure I would want to be the guy handing the blindfolded people the shells. Did you spin them around after each shot. LOL
     
  17. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    timb99 my crony checks the same average speed.
     
  18. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Just to add a very unscientific note...I have shot Remington, Winchester and federal shells with all of the same load details on the boxes, and I believe that one brand kicks harder than the other two! My imagination or have others experienced this? Martinpicker
     
  19. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Reeeaaadddyyyyyyyy, seeeeet, go!
     
  20. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    More prime candidiates for Neil's blind test. Sadly, all doomed to fail.
     
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