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Perazzi Top Levers

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kgb, Oct 22, 2010.

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  1. kgb

    kgb Member

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    The top lever on my MX-16 would always return to the center when the gun was opened. Closing the gun would cause the lever to pivot right again then snap shut as normal when the barrels seated. I saw this on a friend's Poli SxS, so figured it was normal for some Italian guns, but am not sure.

    Do your Perazzi top levers stay to the right until tripped to snap shut?

    Kirk
     
  2. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Not normal, it should lock right when opened, and shooting the gun this way is a good way to cause great damage to the gun.
     
  3. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Your top lever return pivot or button is worn out, broken or missing.
     
  4. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Easily fixed..on a cat4 gun.. but on a cat3..you sometimes need to weld or sleeve the hole for the release pin..It could be wallowed out causing it to not catch on the receiver to keep the top lever open.. Is the top lever release pin at 12 o'clock or 9 o'clock??? looking at the face of the receiver???
     
  5. kgb

    kgb Member

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    Well, it's being fixed but what are the mechanics of the damage that is done by shooting it without the trip in place and operational?
     
  6. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what SkeetMan was talking about but he may have the worry that the top lever got thrashed and beaten around and possible cracked or sheered. If that happened while use, it's possible.

    If you controlled it and kept it from "slapping" back to the far left stop position, I can't see why there would be any damage to the top lever shaft.

    If it did any damage the gun will let you know. Top levers are quite expensive and I protect mine by not letting them slap to the "home" position. Good luck.
     
  7. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the fact that closing the gun in this manner will snap the top lever hard to the right, then back to the left. These guns were not designed to function in this manner, and I would guess it would cause premature wear to the barrel lugs, locking lugs, top lever, and springs.
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    If the problem was caused on a cat3 receiver by a worn top lever return pin hole in the receiver being wallowed out.. it usually causes no more strain on the top lever than slamming the gun shut.. You're using the curved underside of the barrel lugs to push the locking bolt back..and it pops forward locking the breech.. That forward pop is never good for a Perazzi.. and Dan will quickly tell you to use your thumb to catch the top lever.. and slowly close it.. with a little nudge at the end.. Done correctly.. a locking bolt will last 3 times longer.. and your top lever.. forever..
     
  9. tractorboy

    tractorboy Member

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    PerazziBigBore, could you please provide a little more detail of what you mean by "a little nudge at the end".
     
  10. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    If you truley close a Perazzi correctly.. Which BTW I don't.. You gently close the shotgun and catch the top lever with your thumb.. slowly allowing it to close.. at the end of its closing.. if you apply the least bit of pressure on it.. it will close.. maybe another .005.. That is full.. and correct lockup.. about 5 pounds of finger pressure is all we're talking about.. Nothing major..
     
  11. kgb

    kgb Member

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    I've long understood that all break action guns should be closed with resistance to the bolting lever and also that very few Skeet and Trap shooters do so, no matter the gun. I've also only seen the Perazzi and that Poli being designed so that a centered lever will be mechanically moved as the barrels are lifted. This is probably beyond the knowledge of anyone here, but why are those mechanisms designed to perform that function?

    Honestly, I cannot recall where the trip is on that MX-16 although I remember where it was on my long-ago Beretta 687.
     
  12. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    The top lever has a caming pin stuck in the locking bolt.. there is no way to move the locking bolt on a Perazzi.. once the gun is assembled without moving the top lever.. If you can.. the pin on the top lever is broken.. The top lever return spring.. which puts pressure on the top lever.. is what puts pressure on the locking bolt.. to lock the barrel to the receiver.. Hope this answers the question..
     
  13. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't the MX-16 have the triangle shaped lock to hold the locking bolt back?

    Doug
     
  14. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Doug.. yes.. all MX16 have the top lever release pin at 9 o'clock like the late model mx series.. the relationship of the top lever to the locking bolt is the same however.. locking bolt must move with the top lever.. they are joined by the caming pin at the bottom of the top lever..
     
  15. DJSims

    DJSims Member

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    I had the wood of the stock pinching on the lever lock mechanism, preventing it from holding the lever while open. Relief of the wood at this point is an easy trim, and the problem was solved for me.

    Remove the stock, and try the mechanism. The results should tell you if this is the case.

    Doug Sims
     
  16. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Doug is correct.. wood can stick the locking bolt lock in a cat4 type receiver..allowing it to open enough to release the barrel.. but not enough for the catch to lock the locking bolt.. The top lever will not go all the way open in this case however.. and should be easy to spot.. Doug is also correct.. take it out of the wood.. and see what it does..

    Again.. back to the original post.. Most guns with top levers have a mechinical joint between them.. and the method of locking the barrel shut.. I don't know that any are based on the barrel.. Most barrel/forends are responcible for cocking the triggers upon opening..

    Only the Flodmann both cocks the triggers and opens the gun with the top lever..
     
  17. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    You might want to add along side the flodmann, Kreighoff KS-5's as cocking and opening with the top lever.
     
  18. wlc

    wlc Member

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    A top lever return spring that is too long can become fully compressed before the catch is engaged. This can also cause the problem described.
     
  19. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Properly assembled, the bbls should not open until the top lever has slightly passed the locking open position. This will always guarentee the top lever to stay to the right. Unfortunately, many do not. I've seen many TM-1s that the action can be open way before the top lever locks, allowing the top lever to return. The only cure is making the front edge of the locking bolt longer.

    This may be the problem with the MX-16 above. Perazzis have quite a long "throw" to unlock the gun, and because of this slight timing issue, the shooter may not be moving the top lever to the locked open position before the bbls swing open.

    Though not the preferred method, the notch in the locking bolt could be cut a little further back to allow the trip to engage sooner.

    If the top lever spring was too long, either the top lever would probably never lock open, or the gun just wouldn't open far enough to allow the bbls to swing open.

    Doug Braker
     
  20. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I will add a little more...

    I'm working on an MX2000, all-in-all pretty much an original gun, no previous work has been done to it as far as I can tell. When I rotate the top lever to the right, The bbls will unlock and the action will open...long before the top lever trip engages. Measuring at the end of the top lever, I can continue moving the top lever another 3/8" before I can get it to lock. Definitely a gun like the original in the first post.

    Examining things more closely, the statement I made about lengthening the front of the locking bolt in the previous post, would not help,(but maybe for the TM-1s) The top lever can only move the locking bolt so far...in and out. So that only leads to one cure, recutting the locking notch in the bolt.

    Mike,

    Maybe you could talk to Dan or Giacomo sometime what the purpose of the long swing of the top lever on the type 4 series of gun when it really isn't necessary. If you ever get a Rem 90-T in your hands, you be surprised as to short the distance is needed to lock the top lever and open the bbls. Now the 90-T does have a patented design that allows this to happen, but with such a short engagement of the locking bolt and the bbl lugs of the MX series of guns, a shorter swing can be had. At least it would be a help to those shooters with short fingers.

    As for the TM-1 guns, the bolt engagement is much longer, and I have "experimented" with those on ocassion. When I weld them up for a rebuild, I generally allow the bead to roll over the front edge. A couple of times during the grinding of the new angle, I've forgoten to resquare that front edge. When I then slip the bbl on to check the grind, the top lever will "bottom out" to the right and not allow the bbls to close. So a longer front on the locking bolt would help prevent the premature closing of the top lever in those cases.

    Doug Braker
     
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