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Perazzi problem

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by luvtrapguns, Oct 15, 2012.

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  1. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    Just picked up a used type 4 MX-8 O/U. The problem with it is that upon opening the gun fully it partially closes under it's own power, enough to prevent inserting a shell into the bottom barrel. There is definitely "spring pressure" closing the gun. If you remove your hand pressure the barrel/forend will partially close every time. I have talked to a couple of other MX owners that say their guns do the same and that it is normal. I say BS, it should not require three hands to break open a gun and insert another shell. Could the cocking rod be too long? It seems the hammer springs are being over compressed until the barrel partially returns and the trigger sears engage. Any help/suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Marc
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Remove the stock and open the gun, maybe this will show if the gun is being over-cocked. I was breaking the leaf spring too soon because of over-cocking but this was on my TMX with a leaf spring trigger. I swapped the cocking foot in order to fix this. I often have to hold my MX-3 O/U open in order to put a new shell in the bottom barrel.
     
  3. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    You may call it over cocking, but it's not a "Problem". The action was under pressure from the hammer springs when it's fully opened.

    When shooting trap, I rest the barrel on my toe pad with action fully open then insert a shell with my left hand, release the action to partially close under spring pressure so the shell won't fall out when I left the gun.

    When shooting Sporting Clays, I held the forearm/barrel with left hand, tug the butt stock under right arm pit, load both barrels with right hand if I'm in the shooting box.

    Shooting Driven Birds, I noticed my loader does the same thing as I did in SC.
     
  4. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    My MX-11 does it too.
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Mx 15 and mx3spl also
     
  6. dustmaker

    dustmaker Member

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    DB81, same way. I rest the muzzle on toe pad to hold it open.
     
  7. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    It is a normal function of the gun. All break actions guns require some degree of overcocking to ensure that the sear engages the hammer every time. There is very little clearance b/w the shell and receiver when you insert the shell, so you could all but eliminate the overcocking, and you'd still have to apply some force to be able to drop the shell in.
     
  8. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the input. It really surprises me that so many of you would put up with this condition without questioning the maker. Does anyone have a Perazzi O/U that operates without this "springback" condition? Years ago I had a Perazzi Mirage that did not have this "overcocking" condition. I now have a Browning Citori (1977), a Browning Citori XT, a Belguim Browning, and a Rem 3200. All will open fully and stay open. What is so different with Perazzi that they would purposely design a gun that would not stay open? I don't believe they would. It just seems to me that something is not fitted properly. Marc
     
  9. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    A reminder that it is possible to over-cock a Perazzi if the cocking bar or cocking rods are too long. These should be fitted by a smith.
     
  10. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Marc. I too have this issue, but what I do is pull the cocking foot from the bbl I am not shooting. then it opens and stays open. When I shoot dubs, the foot cgoes bck in and I learn to adjust.
     
  11. Gapper

    Gapper TS Member

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    Your gun is not functioning properly. As Mike TMX posted, either the cocking rod or cocking feet need some attention. Or...

    It is also possible the slack in the fore-end iron needs "taken-up", the main reason for Perazzi's application of the "type 4" fore-end iron with oversized shims available for this purpose.

    All over unders and side-by-sides will "try to close" as the obvious spring pressure of the main springs has to push against the gun when the sears aren't engaged.

    Functioning as designed. . . but . . . there should be enough friction to hold the gun open at full gape to load it without having to use three hands and your toes. Try holding a properly adjusted gun sideways in a flat horzontal plane and it will be noticeable at full gape that the gun tries to close itself without the weight of the barrels hanging. The force of gravity and a little friction normally will hold it fully open, to allow loading with the other hand. Regards, GAP
     
  12. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    BTW, Lucio 's answer to this question about not fully open was: "You know your springs are good".
     
  13. Gapper

    Gapper TS Member

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    If a gun is functioning properly, the ejectors are tripped after the point of hammer and sear engagement, no way to short cock a properly timed gun.

    If the spent shells eject and clear the breach normally upon opening, the gun will already be past the engagement point of the hammers. The sear will of course re-engage during closing. If it ejects, it is cocked.

    Removal of the stock will likely show the cocking bar or feet need work to correct "over-cocking", as Mike TMX posted.
     
  14. billyboy07208

    billyboy07208 Member

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    there is a vid on youtube of that redhead shooting int`l skeet with the shania twain song in the background,you can see every time she reloads,she will push down on the barrel to get the shell rim to clear the breach top.
    i`m sure she has no regular old monkey tuning her gun.

    anyway mine does it too [light bbls 1.55kg],but if you have some heavy barrels it will stay open I would think.
     
  15. argus tuft

    argus tuft Member

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    All mx8 perazzi do it when the tension on the knuckle is lost, my gun did it when it lost the tension on the knuckle, I had it serviced with a new shim and it was back to staying open, if you shorten the cocking rod you run the risk of the sears not engaging or worse still unintended discharges or double discharging. my gun is as it came from the factory, no modifications, overcocking usually occurs when FRED'S backyard gunsmith fits a new cocking rod or cocking dogs without regulating them, causing over run on the hammer springs and early failure, sounds to me like your gun need a service by a Perazzi expert

    Argus Tuft
     
  16. Gapper

    Gapper TS Member

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    For the most part, the gun is held with the off hand (left hand holding the fore-end), so it's the weight of the butt stock and friction of the fore-end iron bearing against the receiver resisting the springs tension.

    I've tested about 15 guns here, 6 Perazzis, 5 Berettas, a K80, a 3200, and a gamba and an SKB. They range from NIB to worn out. Every one stayed wide open; but I do have a 682 that tends toward closing a bit when trap shooting.

    Have to agree 100% on backyard gunsmiths. Take it to an expert. GAP
     
  17. Peter Sinclare

    Peter Sinclare Active Member

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    In 35 years of shooting over a dozen Perazzis, I've not had one new Perazzi that does not (so call) "over cocked". I failed to see how one can call this "not functioning properly" .
     
  18. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

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    I was shooting sporting clays with a fellow that JUST got his P gun years ago. I told him my troubles he handed me his gun and IT DID THE SAME THING! I belive they are just this way and there is nothing wrong with them just not as easy to use.
     
  19. ken1okie

    ken1okie Active Member

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    Shot my good buddies MX8-20 in a tourney a week ago. Noticed that issue on the first station and by station 2 was not a problem.
     
  20. Gapper

    Gapper TS Member

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    His gun is not functioning properly. The condition of "overcocking" can occur when the wrong size cocking feet or, too long of a cocking bar are placed in the gun. The normal friction at the knuckle cannot hold the gun fully open; especially so if the wear at the fore-end is excessive.

    All this has been posted to answer the original query.

    A little hard to tell what the exact problem is without handling the gun.

    Self cocking guns have been around long enough for knowlegeable people to realize when there is a problem with a gun not staying in the fully gaped position without assistance. It's not functioning properly.

    I fail to see how someone with any kind of real shooting experience can miss this. Best regards, GAP
     
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