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Perazzi MX2000 Galling - #2

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Boz, Dec 10, 2009.

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  1. Boz

    Boz TS Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Sorry for previous thread stuff up.

    I live in Western Australia (our climate similar to California), and have purchased two Perazzi MX2000's from new. Both had moderate use.

    I have a problem with bluing, but more seriously, galling.


    If you study the two pictures you will notice that both receivers have identical galling, the worst being the younger, the older is starting to follow the younger gun.



    [​IMG]



    The bluing and galling problems need to assessed by the factory for their comments and proposed action. This I am currently waiting on.


    However,in the mean time your comments or information on other shooters having a similar problem and action taken would be appreciated.


    My comments on both issues are as follows:

    Bluing

    The bluing of both MX2000 receivers (underside worse on the trigger guard) have worn to expose the base material. Both guns, once assembled, are carried over the shoulder, like the vast majority of shooters.

    Galling

    Of the two MX2000's I own from new, the adjustable rib, the newer of the two,pictured on the right, purchased in 2008 is worse than the original flat rib, the older one,(21/2yrs old) pictured on the left.

    Perazzi Australia have commented that "foreign matter" has entered the joint between receiver and forend iron thus not a warranty claim. The foreign matter in my opinion, is questionable given the tight tolerance, hardness of the metal, lubrication of the joint and accessibility for matter to enter the joint.

    Even if foreign material some way entered the joint, this would surely make breaking open of the gun very stiff if not impossible to break open.

    Another explanation could be that the tight tolerance and the material of the receiver and forend iron forces the grease from the joint, thus making a “dry joint” which then is subject to severe friction, causing galling.

    After every use, I’ve always washed receivers etc., in 2 stroke mix, then blow dry with compressed air, then apply the original Perazzi grease supplied to surfaces prior to use.

    I’ve only ever used Perazzi grease, contrary to other Perazzi owners. The tube of grease supplied with both guns state; “to prevent galling use Perazzi grease.”

    I am not a metallurgist so I cannot comment on the compatibility/suitability/quality control of the material of the two items, being the receiver and forend iron. This issue can be addressed by the factory.


    One gun could suffer from "foreign matter" but not two and the later purchased gun is worse than the original.

    I have a shooting buddy that had exactly the same galling to an older MX2000. He paid for the repair and has noticed lately that marking on receiver and iron which could be the start of the galling again.

    Another shooting buddy has noticed the start of galling on his MX2000, exactly in the same place.


    This in my opion is not a coincidence, but a very defined pattern emerging.


    Again Guys, your comments, etc., would be appreciated.


    Thanks,

    Chris F
     
  2. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    I only use oil never grease. Been using Perazzi's for more than 30 years with no problems. When I take the gun apart I wipe the oil from the receiver and apply clean oil from a spray can. Sometimes it's a week or two between cleanings.

    The galling will only get worse if you don't correct the problem. Hone the galled areas smooth with a hard sharpening stone. I think your problem will go away if you use oil.
     
  3. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    eb told you exactly correct.. I use a Dremel with a ultrafine Craytex wheel..after I stone the area... Giacomo liked Triflow oil.. and remember to wipe it down after ever shooting scession.. Keep it clean..
     
  4. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Chris, I have been shooting a MX 2000 for several years and I use Triflo as a lubricant. I have never had a problem with galling. Is your 2 stroke mix gasoline and oil?
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Follow the advice above, and I would stop using that 2 stroke mix to clean your shotgun. Using gasoline removes all the lubricant from the metal and increases the chance of galling. Use a spray lube like WD-40 to wash away the dirt and then apply the TriFlow oil. HMB
     
  6. dgoron

    dgoron Member

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    Boz, I agree with the above comments using Tri-Flow or I use Rem-oil with Teflon, about the same thing. But after I apply the Rem-oil I use a brush and apply a light coating of STP. I have found using just Tri-flow that after a long day of 200 plus rounds the gun would still want to start to tighten up when opening. Since applying the STP to the fore end iron and the wear points in the receiver I have never had another problem. I still clean the gun at the end of each days shooting and re-apply new lube. --Hope this helps.--- Dave
     
  7. Sigraph

    Sigraph TS Member

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    If your not sure how to properly use a stone to remove the galling, send it back to the factory. The stone should be hard and dead flat and you have to let the stone ride on the entire surface and stone with the radius. The main thing is to remove any gauld from each surface that sticks above the base metal WITHOUT removing the base metal - else you'll loose contact area and the gun will get loose because the two surfaces have lost contact area. I have a red label with the same problem but it was corrected when the gauld first showed up.
     
  8. thunder

    thunder Active Member

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    Tri-Flow on Perazzi is the only way to go. Don't use grease unless its STOS and then make sure you clean both the receive and forend metal after each outing.

    As others have said you have to get the galling fixed or it will only get worse. I have used a green and then brown colored scott pad and have fixed the galling on a friends gun. Be very carful and don't get real close to the outer edge of the receiver as you can take off bluing on the outside of receiver.

    As far as bluing goes, wear gloves as we all have acidity in our skin and it will take the bluing off. When I had my MX2000 I took bluing off in one day when it was over 100 degree's at our state shoot. Since then I have always worn gloves to shoot and use the Browning ventilated gloves and have no problems.

    I sent mine to get reblued at Glenrock in Wyoming and it held up very well. If I ever shot another Perazzi I would want it silver plated.

    One other thing I would throw the Perazzi grease that comes with the gun away unless you are going to clean it everytime you shoot 100 rounds or maybe even less.

    Good Luck and take your time with it and all will be well. The MX2000 is a very nice gun.

    Andy
     
  9. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Just looking at all the bluing wear on the trigger guard makes me believe you have high acidity sweat.
     
  10. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Perazzi. All that needs to happen is to get on grain of sand or dirt into the joint before assembling the gun, and the galling will begin.

    Though some have success with oil in the joint, I'm a big believer in using high pressure lube(grease). I particularly prefer to use wheel bearing grease. It withstands higher temps, and doesn't get "runny". If it's good enough to use on a race car, why not a slow moving joint found on a gun.

    Once the joint is absolutely clean, grease applied, and gun assembled, the grease WILL NOT squeeze out, and it will prevent foreign debris from entering. BUT, the moment you remove the forend assy, the process of cleaning and re-greasing has to be started again.

    One prime example of dirt entering the joint, happens right at the gunclub. Here in the states, pickup trucks and SUVs fill the clubs parking lot. When a shooter opens his case on the tailgate of his vehicle, dirt/dust is constantly swirling around as other vehicles are moving in and out. This debris has to settle on something. This something is into the gun case and onto the nice clean and greased forend iron you just laid down on the tailgate, as you assemble the bbls to the receiver.

    While I worked at Kolar Arms, when we were fitting bbls and forend irons to the receivers, we used bearing grease. During the fitting procedure, once the bbl was partially fitted into the receiver, we would use a plastic mallet and tap the forend into place on the bbl. It really wasn't just a tap, some would call it a light beating. This would apply an unbelievable amount of pressure on the joint. So much so that you could open the gun with using a lot of force. Many complain about the tightness of their new Brownings, multiply this by 3-4 times. Never did we ever get any galling. It was very important that when the forend iron was removed; which was frequently, that all surfaces were cleaned and relube.

    Doug
     
  11. Don Rackley

    Don Rackley Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Good advice on using hard sharpening stone to smooth out galling on convex knuckle surface. Don't forget to smooth the concave surface of foreend iron. If you don't the receiver will likely gall again.

    Grease will trap contaminants, oil will not. I use grease (STOS), remove daily and reapply. Never a galling issue over many years of Perazzi use.

    Don
     
  12. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me you have a sandy environment with wind that makes dust to stay on your newly applied grease. Read the comment from GunDr., most likely that's what happened.

    The bluing on your trigger guard reminded me of my rifle barrel been carried by my African tote guy for 5 days in the hunt, I had to check his hand after the bluing was gone, it's like sand paper.

    Don't worry about the bluing, you'll worn it out in a matter of weeks, fix the galling and enjoy your shotguns.
     
  13. g7777777

    g7777777 Active Member

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    sand or dirt caused this

    dont use grease - ever- use motor oil if you want but not grease

    Do what eb and bigbore suggest

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  14. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    One thing I haven't seen mentioned so I will. Stop carrying the gun on your shoulder. That is a perfect source of dust, dirt and other foreign materials and you just put the open joint with dirt holding grease right on top of it.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I fail to understand why some have advised never to use grease, only oil. I believe the joint should be lubricated, but the type of lubricant is not really important as long as it is kept clean.

    Removing the protruding points in the galled area is important, but use care. It takes both skill and experience to stone, or file, metal flat. It takes more skill to flatten curved surfaces correctly.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I use CMD grease label says ANTI GULLING, have never had a problem using it on any gun.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  17. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Chip King has a point.
     
  18. Boz

    Boz TS Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Many thanks to one and all for your comments and advice.
    It's very much appreciated.


    Just a follow up.

    A very prominent Australian gunsmith recommends washing out with 2 stroke mix, the oil in the petrol/oil mix providing lubrication prior to usual grease application. I've just followed his advice.

    I've always used the Perazzi supplied grease, possibly out of ignorance for fear of negating my warranty should I need to claim if using non Perazzi lubricant.

    Also from all your comments NONE of you use the Perazzi grease. That says alot for the Perazzi grease.


    I'll update on progress.

    Regards,
    Chris F
     
  19. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this galling happened from sand at all. Almost every galled receiver I've seen started galling because it was dinged by the sharp point of the forearm iron's corner when installing or removing it. Once the receiver is dinged it continues to shear away more metal and spreads it out to do more damage. You've got to get rid of that roughed up looking area like others here have said.

    I'd have a good Perazzi smithy rework it.............and by-the-way, while 30 weight non detergent motor oil is fine for lubricating nearly anything on a Perazzi, a light touch of synthetic grease is also fine. If sand can be stuck to grease it'll stick to oil, as well.

    I don't like Perazzi grease. It's OK for break-in but once a new gun opens and closes easily I discontinue using it. When you rub it between your fingers it feels gritty to me. I use Loctite's "ViperLube" Synthetic. It is both a great lubricant and is non-petroleum, stainless, waterproof, heat resistant and wont stain your wood. Merry Christmas everyone.
     
  20. g7777777

    g7777777 Active Member

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    Barry some good points but I do not agree with sand would stick in Oil- actually it might just move with the oil and not stick at all.

    Also if you dont clean your gun each time- then grease will collect dirt and sand or whatever-

    but I do think that mobile 1 is a great lubricant as is STP

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
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