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Perazzi MX-8 or Mirage

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jersey Joe, May 8, 2010.

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  1. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe TS Member

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    I think, from what I've read on the web, they are virtually the same gun. If the price and condition are equal should I have any concerns about purchasing the older Mirage as opposed to an MX-8? Are all their parts interchangeable?

    Thanks again for your help!
     
  2. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    They are the same gun.

    Mirage was named after the same type of gun Ennio Mattarelli won the gold in '64 Tokyo Olympic with. It's the platform for the later MX-8 which was named after the '68 Olympics in Mexico City.

    The only difference at the time (not anymore) was the first MX-8 made for Mattarelli for his second Olympics game had a slightly higher rib than the first Mirage, for keeping his line of sight further away from the shimmer of heat waves from the barrel (considering the thin atmosphere of Mexico City's high altitude). And he had screw in choke tubes in the bottom barrel. Both were new at the time.

    Mirage was discontinued right before Perazzi introduced their machine engraved MX-2000. It generally has better wood than a standard MX-8 at the time.

    Their parts interchange, as long as they are both type 3 or type 4.

    A side note, regarding the high rib, only Al Ljutic and Perazzi did this in the '60s. Two true great shogun designers 8000 miles away from each other.
     
  3. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe TS Member

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    Thanks Steve...What's the difference between type 3 and 4?
     
  4. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Joe, Perazzi made an improvement on forend design in 1977, the forend and barrel under lug is different.

    This factory type 3 & 4 designation is only to the forend / barrel lugs, not to be confused with later receiver and earlier trigger housing, later hammer changes.
     
  5. XTerminator

    XTerminator Member

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    Didn't some Mirages have tapered ribs?

    Steve
     
  6. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe TS Member

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    Steve...thanks again. A picture is worth.... :)

    I've never shot trap but this has become my GO TO forum for all shotgun questions and research!
     
  7. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Yes, some Mirage has tapered rib, so are almost every other models.

    You're welcome.
     
  8. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. Mirages were not made until 1973. Mirages are named that because pretty much nothing was standard and the buyer could pick any combination of bells and whistles he liked. The MX8 was pretty much a standardized item until much later. The Mexico City gun was the first MX8. Everything else is a evolution/derivation of that action. AFA the action goes there is of course no difference whatsoever other than the name that might be engraved on the side. On the earlier guns even that was on the barrel. I don't have a Mirage with the name on the action. The SC1/Comp1 predated the MX8 tho it continued production into the '70's.
    In 70's catalogs the Mirages and MX8's are priced the same and there was a sorta standard Mirage, but any changes (mirage-ing?) added to the bill.
    I have five late 70's Mirages and they are all different.

    Charlie
     
  9. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    I know what you read in my friend Karl's book, we talked about it many times. He agreed there's a need for a revised edition, but never had the time to do it.

    You can argue Mattarelli didn't shoot a Mirage, I didn't say he did, I said that gun/model was named Mirage when they put it on the market.

    Well, Perazzi used Mirage name in their marketing strategy as primary for pigeon shooters at the time to distinguish it from the MX-8.

    MX-8 was their high tech competition model, Comp 1 was an entry level model at the time when first bought into the U.S. It's true, Mirage name didn't appear until few years after Mattarelli's victory, but that was the same type of gun he used, and it has been a "relatively" higher grade gun among standard grade Perazzis at the time.

    MX-8 was the name they stuck with since the innovation of high rib & choke tubes. It kept expending to all configurations and became the standard of all modern Perazzis, but it started as a the '64 gun Mattarellis used, and Mirage evolved into more configurations later.
     
  10. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Anything special that wasn't an MX-8 was dubbed "Mirage" (non-standard)
     
  11. Gregg535

    Gregg535 Member

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    I have a MX-8 sporting clay model that came from London (imported gun). It is a 1985 production model that says "DG3" in gold lettering on the left side of the receiver. Does anyone have any additional info on this particular gun???


    Gregg535
     
  12. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Steve: I've spoken to Karl several times down in Colorado Springs.

    I *think* he told me that prior to moving to Colorado, he was the operations manager for Perazzi USA. Am I correct on this?

    PS: I left you PM on the barrel.

    Jim "Whiz" White
     
  13. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Jim, he was the G.M. of Perazzi USA at one time, he got some informations from the original Perazzi records in Italy, but still, there're some misinformed data, partially because most of the pre '80s records were hand written, in Italian.

    p.s., the barrel is yours. I sent you another email.
     
  14. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Gregg, your gun sound like those from a dealer in U.K., "Diamond Guns".

    If you really want to find out, here's the phone #: 01435 863 295 Just remember they're on GMT.
     
  15. Gregg535

    Gregg535 Member

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    Steve W,

    Thanks for the info. I will call them tomorrow as I have always wanted to know more about this particular gun. I like the gun as it was custom stocked with a real nice piece of wood and a longer then standard length of pull and some right hand castoff which suits me well. It was originally a fixed choked gun but I sent it off to Brileys a couple of years ago and had it choked with the thin walled tubes.


    Gregg
     
  16. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    "You can argue Mattarelli didn't shoot a Mirage, I didn't say he did, I said that gun/model was named Mirage when they put it on the market."

    I don't find that name in any old lit that I have ever seen except in ref to the MX8 based models in the 70's. Where did you see that?

    "Well, Perazzi used Mirage name in their marketing strategy as primary for pigeon shooters at the time to distinguish it from the MX-8."

    And was this the Comp1 or MX8 "Mirage"? Seems to be contradicting what you said earlier.

    "MX-8 was their high tech competition model, Comp 1 was an entry level model at the time when first bought into the U.S."

    Not that sure about "entry level", since it was the same price as the MX8's - just like the MT6 was a few years later.


    "It's true, Mirage name didn't appear until few years after Mattarelli's victory, but that was the same type of gun he used, and it has been a "relatively" higher grade gun among standard grade Perazzis at the time."

    Yes - an MX8 based gun. And as to the date stuff, I have a domestic Mirage that is a '72 Type 2 (not 3) - gold name on the barrel and '72 proofs.

    "MX-8 was the name they stuck with since the innovation of high rib & choke tubes. It kept expending to all configurations and became the standard of all modern Perazzis, but it started as a the '64 gun Mattarellis used, and Mirage evolved into more configurations later."

    Not exactly sure what you're saying there, but the '64 gun became the SC1/Comp1. The '68 Olympics gun became the MX8 and Mirage. I suppose that a case could be made for the SC1 as an evolutionary predecessor to the MX8 but it is more Boss than anything else. Perazzi didn't make a new anything really, just a better one. But that is not a slam by any means. Just look how he has been copied since. And they are easily the finest guns that I'll ever be able to afford.

    I'm also not sure what the point of all this is. Mostly I wonder who really cares? Mirages are MX8's. I doubt that anyone is going to discover a SC1 with the name "Mirage" on it and wonder what its worth.

    JMO of course

    Charlie
     
  17. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Charlie,

    It is true, who really cares, as I said, Mirage is the same gun as MX-8. It was the marketing name they used when it first came out.

    If you knew Michael McIntosh, read a few of his books, you'll see (with the exception of some different dates of Perazzi imports), he and I agreed on almost everything I said about Perazzi including the history about Mirage.

    Here's a direct quote from Michael McLintosh in his famous book "Best Guns"©:

    "One of the first things Ennio Mattarelli and Daniele Perazzi did after establishing their partnership was to start thinking about a trap gun for the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City. They already had the '64 Tokyo gun, which was on the market as the Perazzi Mirage-first-rate barrels, a frame with more steel than a Subaru,......" The last sentence was famous, if you have never heard of it. :)

    Let's put this silly issue to the rest, let me say it one more time to answer the original question, MIRAGE AND MX-8 ARE THE SAME GUN.
     
  18. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe TS Member

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    Soooo... what you guys are saying is that the MX-8 and the Mirage are the same gun :)

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Anyway, I ended up buying an MX-8. I'm a little nervous about buying an expensive(for me) gun sight unseen but I think it's a good deal. I have some wiggle room in the event I need some stock work. Hopefully it will fit me just fine like the few I have shot in the past. Should be getting it Friday, then I will have even more questions for you guys!

    Thanks again.

    --Joe
     
  19. XTerminator

    XTerminator Member

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    Since there are some Perazzi experts here I have a quick question.
    Every once in a while I see an early MX8 that has small grooves running lengthwise on the forearm in the groove above the checkering.
    Is this something that was only done for a couple of years or so or is it fairly common?

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  20. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen skeet guns and MT6's like that but not an MX8. Didn't mean it didn't happen tho, Perazzi would give the customer anything they wanted or maybe they just has some one in the checkering shop that liked that style hahaha

    As for the mac quote - I can only say he stands alone in that contention. I have never seen advert or heard anywhere anything that was any ref to the SC1 as "Mirage". Doesn't mean it didn't happen, just saying .....


    Charlie
     
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