1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Perazzi Barrel Burst???????????

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by TN Larry, May 28, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TN Larry

    TN Larry TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    48
    The Georgia SC newsletter mentioned the Winchester 101 burst and a Perazzi burst.
    Anyone know anything about the Perazzi "incident"?
     
  2. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    Click on the thread. Apparently this is recent. Somebody screwed up. Jake

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=145333
     
  3. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,038
    Just another HOAX according to the expert Piddy............... Looks pretty similar to the 101 that I posted here a while back. l.g.
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    L.G., I posed this question on that thread and will post it below also. I see the hull was a AA hull, whether or not it was a reload or new.

    "What might be the reaction if;

    the priming system and primer shoved the basewad forward at primer insertion, primer is then held by the brass/steel head. Next, powder drops with some filling the primer hole now farther up in the case. With enough power, wads can be totally crushed for this purpose possibly.

    My question concerns the air space now behind that basewad, would the primer now ignite the whole charge or act as a temporary block to the main charge? Once it's ignited, is the oxygen behind the forward basewad now in play?

    I personally know what the effects of quail feathers can have at the base of the old AAs. That too is a sputz/bang situation at times. Just thinking of various things that may happen at times when reloading. Hap" Again, Hap
     
  5. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,038
    Hap,

    I emailed the gentleman on that thread hoping that i can talk to him and see if there was a delay (hangfire situation) like what happened with the 101. After seeing a P-gun in 100 parts it makes one wonder what is going on. There is a definate problem. So far the common thing that I see here is PW press and AA new style international hulls. Looks like the Perazzi was stronger in the side plate dept than the 101 was.
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    L.G., I agree with your accessment and observations guy! Hap
     
  7. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,262
    Was definitely a reload...that ISN'T a factory Winchester primer! Kinda scary, as I reload everything I shoot! This "detonation" theory has me wondering. AndyH
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Oxygen between a forward/upward basewad and primer opening has me concerned also?

    <a href="http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r104/HapMecTweaks/?action=view&current=2009909750103548778S425x425Q85.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a> <a href="http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r104/HapMecTweaks/?action=view&current=2448320920103548778S425x425Q85.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a> <a href="http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r104/HapMecTweaks/?action=view&current=2545425450103548778S425x425Q85.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a> <a href="http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r104/HapMecTweaks/?action=view&current=2448320920103548778S425x425Q85-1.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Just more questions I guess? Hap
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    If a base wad was forward (I have a few cases with loose base wads sent to me by others) would not seating the wad and/or the final crimp push the base wad back into place. All of the loads I have loaded do not have any extra space for air.

    I have loaded shells with a cocked wad. This would allow oxygen in front of the powder. I bet you know what happens when I do that.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    Oxygen shouldn't be a factor. Smokeless powder produces its own oxygen.
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Thank you mrskeet. My understanding of powder is the it burns without the aid of oxygen. If thats true, what happens if oxygen is added as in the scenario above?

    Pat, I don't know if all loaders are capable of seating a wad "back down" on the primer under all those variable circumstances. Like you, I have a few of those hulls with loose basewads but my MEC machine uses the powder drop tube to seat the primer which contacts the base of the hull first then drops powder a split second later. That tube would seat a forward base I'd think. Just doing some guessing on various things that may have happened. Hap
     
  12. jackmitch

    jackmitch TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    815
    i saw an 1100 blow a few years back. the gun was sent to remington and they determined it be caused by a low powder charge detonating as stated above. it was a AA reload. jackmitch
     
  13. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,761
    Hap "what if" The base wad is pushed forward. When powder is introduced some ends up behind the wad because it flows through the primer hole in the wad and some in front. You now have two charges that probably won't ignite as a single charge but a charge into a charge because the basewad acts as a seperator. When those two pressure fronts collide in the middle who knows where the pressure will go. This should be recreatable. I know some on this site have tried blowing up shotguns with all manner of methods including a loaded 20ga in front. I'm just wondering if this has been tried YET.
    --- Chip King ---
     
  14. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Chip, that's the point I was attempting to convey also. I did load one of my "loose basewad hulls" in the same manner you wrote. I chickened out on firing it with a string attached to the trigger and took the shell apart. I couldn't afford blowing up one of my guns, especially since I quit using those hulls long ago. Still, it makes me curious as a cat when it comes to shotguns blowing up for no (apparent) reason. I quit using the new AA because of wads sometimes hanging up on the side of the internal lip creating a mess, long before I'd heard of the basewads separating. That alone soured me on the "improvements" of the hull. Who knows what the exact conditions or combinations have to be to duplicate a detonation, I certainly don't, along with many others here. We're all just guessing.

    MX-8B, thanks my friend. Hap
     
  15. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,761
    Hap I shoot about 10 - 15K of the AA reloads every year. I switched over several years ago when the quality of the Remington STS hulls in 28 and 410 was so bad that you couldn't get a decent reload and in 28 the hulls would seperate on new shells. At the time I was shooting Skeet and Trap so I was loading probably closer to 25 thousand a year on MECs.
    I load on a Spolar now so the same potential for a seperation exists as on a P/W so I really would like to know what is causing these blows ups. Especially as I look at my 12 flats of AAHS reloads and my 2 large trashcans full of once fired AAHS awaiting loading.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  16. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,761
    Well that could be a Fiocchi primer in the pics. They are silver on silver but with all the heat and pressure on that hull it is hard to tell what the origional finish on the primer was. As you say Mike still too many IFs

    --- Chip King ---
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Mike- Your explanation of the "cold weather bomb" is one of the few explanations that pass the test of logic.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,398
    Does anybody remember when Bruce Bowen tried to blow a barrel a few years ago? He tried every combination possible to make a cheap barrel fail but failed. So the bottom line, is a K, or P gun inferior to a H&R single shot shotgun?
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Mike, another interesting project might to X-ray a few of the pot shooters barrels and receivers to check for stress cracks? At one time, I could have had several checked a day. Know anyone with access to a portable test lab? Hap
     
  20. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,461
    Location:
    Hanford, CA
    Hap, would regular old Magna-flux work? I'm like chipking...I have 10 flats of AA's loaded, and a barrel full of hulls. I'm a little apprehensive :(
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.