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Pennsylvanian? Why Leagues...not ATA?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Voolfie, Aug 2, 2008.

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  1. Voolfie

    Voolfie Member

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    Pennsylvania has so many trapshooters who are either NOT members of the ATA or who only register a small number of targets annually. Why don't more PA shooters shoot more registered targets? I have my theories...I'm interested to hear from others. And if you're from out of "Commonwealth" don't let that stop you...let your voice be heard. JFW
     
  2. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    $$$$$??????
     
  3. Voolfie

    Voolfie Member

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    OK, money. Got it. But is it simply a matter of "one is cheaper than the other" or is it that you don't feel that you get "your money's worth" with/at an ATA event? If not, why not? ...Just asking... (as a matter of disclosure I am not a member of the ATA, nor do I participate in a league...I'm an occasional 16-yard shooter who doesn't really compete) -jfw
     
  4. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    At a league, you know all the people you're shooting with, or a lot of them anyway. It feels like a horse race, because you know who the competitors are..."So how did Wolfie shoot tonight?"...."I dunno, but Weenie's release trigger broke and he had to finish his second trap with his Mossberg again..."...etc.


    Some people seem to think that sort of thing is more fun than driving an hour or two to spend several hundred bucks competing against a faceless horde of people you don't know and whom you'll be extremely lucky to beat...the fat 16 year-olds whizzing around in 4 wheel drive golf carts with $16k guns...the bitching about the targets...the bitching about the trophies...the two hour wait...the two hour drive back home...the faces of your wife and kids as you walk in the door, 15 minutes before it's time for the kid to go to bed...


    You get the idea...


    And this was HALF your weekend. Now, if that same Pennsylvanian can stop at a range on his way home from work one (1) night a week, shoot 50 birds with people he knows and likes, check the scores and competition, BS a little, maybe have a beer in the parking lot...and still have his whole weekends intact...


    Hey - for some people - like me - that's a "no-brainer."
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I shoot a league and ATA. The league is for fun, the ATA is to put pressure on myself to perform and improve against established benchmarks of proficiency.
     
  6. PaShooter

    PaShooter Member

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    Money is an issue with some. Main issue in my area is the location of the Grand. When it was located in Dayton almost everyone who was an ATA member attended the Grand for at least a few days. Now after the move to Sparta the reasoning is "why do I need the targets?, I'm not going to the Grand". I have five clubs within an hour of my house, the majority running weekly leagues, but out of those five I am safe to guess the number of shooters attending the Grand is less than two dozen. Most are shooting the leagues for fun, no longer have the need to register their targets. Just my opinion....

    Paul H
    Imperial, PA
     
  7. Duck Head

    Duck Head TS Member

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    I agree. Who will miss us? The western and midwestern shooters will make up the difference in Grand attendance, Right? LOL!!!
    I only shot ATA to get my Grand targets and to train for the competition at the Grand. No Vandalia, Bye Bye ATA. Who cares anyway? The get along, go along crowd won't. Flame on.
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Penna. does have a lot of ATA shooters and many excellent ATA shoots are held in PA. It is true that there are many PA shooters who shoot leagues and not ATA targets. I feel sorry for them, they are missing so much.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Time and Money are big factors. Local non-ATA organized or informal competition is a draw for many shooters. With ATA competition, some don't see a clear end game or purpose for registered targets unless they have the time and money to get to the grand, or even the State and Regional events. Local and State competitions ar fine, but it is not convenient for many shooters to go the registered or ATA way. Fun is the name of the game for a great many shooters and getting the most bang for the buck means a lot.
     
  10. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat Ireland, please do not feel sorry for us Pennsylvanians.We don't need your sympathy. Shooting league and fun shoots is sometimes a real hoot. What is better than spenig time with friends and fellow shooters just shooting the breeze (no pun intended there) and having a good time in a casual atmosphere. Mike
     
  11. Play Dead

    Play Dead Member

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    I shoot in a few leagues in Pennsylvania, as well as the ATA. I would say that less than 40% of the league shooters I know, shoot registered targets.

    Our Leagues offer some benefits that registered target shooting will not. Price is one thing. Even though most league shooting will cost more than regular practice, it is not nearly as expensive as registered target shooting, even when you shoot "targets only" without playing options.

    Our leagues shoot on Sundays throughout the fall and winter months. You can show up and stay all day or shoot and be on your way within a hour or two, whatever you prefer. ATA shoots are time killers. You need to show up early for squading and then stay at the shoot for hours, even if you only want to shoot one event (doubles for instance). You are often there for four to five hours to shoot for 45 minutes.

    In a 25 bird League, and to a lesser extent in a 50 bird league, a high percentage of shooters are capable of achieving a perfect score. When this occurs they are helping their team, and they have shot as well as the best league shooter for that day. This is something that would rarely happen for them in a 100 or 200 bird ATA shoot. Still, being able to achieve a number of perfect scores and compete at a high level throughout a league season is a difficult task. League shooters are able to compete with the best ATA shooters and in some cases outperform them, even though they may be a class or two below these shooters if they were to register targets with the ATA. By the same token, the league format still presents a worthy challenge to the most accomplished ATA shooter.

    Finally, many of our leagues have a long and rich history. You shoot for your gun club against other local clubs. One league in particular has been in existence for over 50 years. At one point in the 1970's (the good old days), this league had over 800 participants that competed each Sunday. The leagues are designed smartly, with prizes for HOA, High Gun, top ten guns and all of the special categories (lady, vets, juniors,etc.). For the remainder of the participants, their league scores allow them to be classified and shoot off against their peers in a season ending event, where the money prizes are good and they have better than a one in five chance of winning in their class.

    Leagues offer sportsmanship, comaraderie, and both team and individual aspects of competition. All of this is offered at a lower price and time commitment than ATA shooting. Having said all of this, the best league shooters will still tend to be those that register targets.

    Bottom line, I know many league shooters who do not shoot ATA. I know very few local ATA shooters, who do not compete in our leagues. My conclusion, the Leagues must be doing something right.

    Play Dead
     
  12. fiftystr8

    fiftystr8 TS Member

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    Just look at the attitude and whining on a lot of the posts here and it will answer the question!!!!!!
     
  13. SARGE75X

    SARGE75X Member

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    This morning there is a ATA shoot north of me and a SC's shoot south of me. The SC's shoot is the first Sunday of the month, so is the ATA shoot. But the SC's shoot is $40.00 and a dinner afterwards( Chicken with all the fixens)There are 6 in my group I'm the only one that wanted to go to the ATA shoot. I need the targets for the grand next year. The vote was tallied and I lost. But I dont blame them at least we get to eat, last weekend at Rochester I saw the payout, guy shoots a 99 and gets 8 bucks?
     
  14. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    At one time ATA Handicap events were the big draw with substantial money to be won-no more. Our local PA leagues, money and meat shoots pay better, are less time consuming, extremely competetive and far more fun. Give the shooters something worthwhile to shoot for and they'll be there (ex. Krieghoff giveaway event at the PA State shoot).

    As one of the masterminds of the largest and most successful leagues in PA and a participant who hasn't missed a shoot in 47 years, I'd say we're doing something right!!
     
  15. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    we have 25 regular shooters, 2 ata 1 jr. When I ask the other guys why they dont shoot ATA, they ask why? its is for some it aint for others. I play golf also. Time/Money/ the waiting. is a big killer for most.
     
  16. luvnbearhugs1

    luvnbearhugs1 TS Member

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    I wish the clubs closer to us here in Maryland and Virginia had more open events like it appears they do in Pennsylvania. I would have written Andrew Moreland's post myself if he had not beaten me to it. He has said exactly how I feel about attending the ATA shoots. I go to see friends when I go. They certainly have plenty of time to socialize in between shoots. It's all about fun, and try as I might, I have seen nothing that makes me feel like I need to register for ATA. I am looking forward to the leagues that start in the next couple months.

    Luvn
     
  17. Voolfie

    Voolfie Member

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    Great information here. Seems there's plenty of room for both leagues and ATA. The ATA has to be more formal and competitive...and thus more expensive. I'm hearing that some consider the ATA to be the "not-really-amateur-trapshooting-association"...and others like to shoot a lot of targets which would recommend the ATA. Leagues are more social, relaxed and low-stress. From what I see here, the leagues form the well that the ATA draws from. Sounds like there's no real problem or conflict; whether league or registered, people are shooting targets...which is the important thing. -jfw
     
  18. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Less travel, better time management, lower cost, more people known, more accommodating shoot management, ability to "shoot ahead" or "shoot back" to make up days missed, more veteran and senior vets who do not want to travel long distances, less loss of time for other things like family or fishing all contribute to League popularity vs. ATA shoots.

    I am a Secretary for two Leagues and a plain old ordinary member in a third league. The last one is an ATA registered league, so it is possible to be BOTH an ATA shooter shooting registered (at the end of the season) targets and a plain old League shooter at the same time.

    My ATA involvement began to decline back when they raised the number of targets shot in the current year to qualify at the (then Vandalia) Grand. After the first few years in the ATA I could make classification without penalty. I dropped Doubles from my plans when the double targets needed at the Grand went up. There was only one place around here then that shoot registered doublews and if I missed two of their shoots, it was very difficult to get enough Doubles without excessive travel. I often made it to a Marathon or two just to get enough targets for 16's and cCaps without penalty.

    In subsequent years, I would be able to make it to the Grand for one or two days and I would shoot 16's and Caps. I made it to every Grand for a bunch of years, once even earning the coveted "GAH" next to the punch on the average card. The Grand was more of an EVENT that a shoot for me. It was my enjoyment to see the various vendors and there products. They would remember me from previous years and I would remember them. The costs for this once a year event were my vacation. The family went along and enjoyed themselves both on and off the grounds for a number of years.

    Then came the move west. With the travel (round trip) going from 10 hours to 22 (by Mapquest), and the subsequent increase in gasoline consumption, and I have not felt motivated to go to the Grand. My two days of travel would only allow one day, or maybe less, of shooting. Not enough vacation time to do more than that. I made it to the Eastern Zone or the PA State or the Ohio or WV State (only one a year unless something special happened to allow two or three to be scheduled) and so far this has not happened.

    When I did make it to Vandalia, I would run into anywhere from 10 to 15 shooters from the Leagues I was involved in. AT the Eastern Zone, one, the PA state three, the WV three (maybe), the Ohio 1. It just ain't the same.

    I am seriously considering hanging up the ATA membership at the end of this target year. I currently have 1100 League 16's and 100 other 16's and no Cap's because scheduling and a family situation severely limited my ability to attend most anything from March on and there were no ATA shoots scheduled that were close enough for me to consider attending from October till March. In this same time period I still managed to attend every single league shoot from the three leagues I am involved with.

    For the record, this is from the northwestern corner of Pennsylvania.
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Many above have posted that they only shoot league shoots because they are more interested in both shooting and visiting with their friends. That is why I shoot ATA events. I go to them, shoot and have fun. But I do that at clubs between Florida, New York, Iowa and Mississippi. I used to go further. I know that I can walk into a club in New Mexico and see someone I already know. By the time I leave the club, I will know many more. I do not want to restrict my friends to local shooters. I must feel sorry for shooters who do not know Daro Handy in Oregon, Larry Bumsted from Iowa or Jerry B. from Florida.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Gee Pat, I guess we're just not part of the jet-set like you.
     
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