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PENN State Shoot. Same old Same old.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Gargoyle!, Jun 15, 2007.

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  1. Gargoyle!

    Gargoyle! TS Member

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    They are openly sandbagging at the Penn State Shoot. 97 98 99 100 in C and D class. When will the ATA open their eye's and do something about it?
     
  2. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Yawn ...
     
  3. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Whats the matter Gargo. Can't you compete with the top scores in those classes. It will always happen. Some shooter will rise to the occasion. That is not sandbagging. Sandbagging is only a problem in the minds of a few jeolous shooters. - Jim
     
  4. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would sandbag in singles, or, for that matter, why it would bother anyone if they did. It they want to win a C or D class trophy and are happy staying there and not improving, who cares? There sure as heck isn't any money in the single so why would anyone bother? I agree with Jim Elliott. C and D class shooters can, and do, at times, rise to the occassion and shoot some great scores, especially at the larger shoots. Now, in handicap, I can understand that there are, indeed, sandbaggers that are after the added money and the option money, but in singles???? Nah....I don't think so.....Just my take on it......Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  5. Gargoyle!

    Gargoyle! TS Member

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    No beginner should be shooting 97 98 99 100 in D or C class. B and up yes but not in the lower classes. I still say they need to look at past scores in smallshoots to see how they did.
     
  6. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Very interesting. I just looked up some of the records for these winners. A few hundred targets to date but annual counts of 2000+ and annual averages above class. Some of these are not a guy having a good day, it is a guy shooting at the true class average level of his past several years.

    The great harm that is done when people are mis-classified is that it discourages new shooters who are truly in that class. If you are not a Vet, and have 2 years of shooting, you should not be allowed to shoot D and 3 years for C.
     
  7. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    To you naysayers I will state a couple of examples. A couple of years ago a class C shooter broke and 100 hundred at the Grand Prelim days. This forum had many complaints, such as Gargo posted. Truth. It was shot by a 14 year old boy. His best score previously was 93. And I know the circumstances were as posted. He was a member of our winning SCTP Junior team. He did not shoot that well in the SCTP championships.

    Another example (I have posted this before) but a class C shooter broke 200 at our state shoot, a couple of years ago. Ran something like 198 in shoot off to loose by one target. I personally know the young man. He was not sandbagging. He had never came close to 100 before. If you were there and watched you would agree he was not a sandbagger. Rode the targets out over 20 yards before he shot. But he had encouragement from a lot of us and he proceeded to provide a great deal of excitement to the shoot off. I believe it was the largest spectator croud in years.

    So you see gentlemen. No only sandbaggers can shoot good scores. In fact I know a couple of so called sandbaggers. What they shoot is a laugh and a half.
    Be congratulatory to all that shoot good scores. Just like to feel the need to congratulate the pros in this sport. - Jim
     
  8. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    To you naysayers I will state a couple of examples. A couple of years ago a class C shooter broke and 100 hundred at the Grand Prelim days. This forum had many complaints, such as Gargo posted. Truth. It was shot by a 14 year old boy. His best score previously was 93. And I know the circumstances were as posted. He was a member of our winning SCTP Junior team. He did not shoot that well in the SCTP championships.

    Another example (I have posted this before) but a class C shooter broke 200 at our state shoot, a couple of years ago. Ran something like 198 in shoot off to loose by one target. I personally know the young man. He was not sandbagging. He had never came close to 100 before. If you were there and watched you would agree he was not a sandbagger. Rode the targets out over 20 yards before he shot. But he had encouragement from a lot of us and he proceeded to provide a great deal of excitement to the shoot off. I believe it was the largest spectator croud in years.

    So you see gentlemen. No only sandbaggers can shoot good scores. In fact I know a couple of so called sandbaggers. What they shoot is a laugh and a half.
    Be congratulatory to all that shoot good scores. Just like to feel the need to congratulate the pros in this sport. - Jim
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Gargle wants everybody out of D class but himself then he is sure he can win or at least tie. Maybe Gargle you can get a 5 strait badge.

    Take your whinny drivel elsewhere.

    Don
     
  10. Gargoyle!

    Gargoyle! TS Member

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    Did I hit a nerve Bigdon the moron? HA HA HA HA HA
     
  11. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    I have shot over my head before and hope to do so in the near future. As I am NOT a AA27AA for me to win in class A, I must shoot over my head. I think Gargoles point is that people should not "live" in the lower classes. And I agree with with that.
     
  12. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I think Gargo problem is he remains in th lower classes and continually is beat by a up and coming shooter. He simply remains the same. I hope I am wrong, but !!! - Jim
     
  13. Gargoyle!

    Gargoyle! TS Member

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    Jim Elliott, you do not know what class I'm in. Just to let you know I'm in upper A class close to AA class. I hate sandbaggers because they are cheating the young shooters who are trying to enjoy the sport and trying to earn something for hard work and practice. To have it taken away by someone who is not in their propper class is wrong. To have a B or A class shooter in D or C class is wrong. All I'm saying is give the new shooter a chance to win and win fairly. To shoot a 85 and be beat by an 86 is one thing to be beat by a 97 98 99 100 is another.
     
  14. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Gargle you are sorry soul. The only nerve you struck was the one I was setting on.

    Don
     
  15. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Gargo - From what I have read if one of these younger shooter shoot a good score you will then class them as a sandbagger. Quit worrying about sandbaggers and start working more on your shooting skills. Who know maybe you will win a Class A event and then someone will accuse you of sandbagging because you just broke a AA score. - Jim
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    For the general information of the readers of this thread, Gargoyle has shot some fine scores. He has been accused of several things, but never of sandbagging. He has also helped develop some new shooters. I do believe that it is possible to find some good things in everyone. It is very easy to see good things in some, for others, a closer inspection is required.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Now I understand why he is irritated. He is concerned for his shooters. That's commendable.

    The fact remains, that his shooters are going to have to get into the 97-and-above scores to be able to win at a big shoot, though. That is just the way it is. He has to find a way to instill a desire to stick with the sport until they can get there, or take them to some of the less competitive state shoots. A win at a smaller shoot will help your confidence level...it certainly helped me.
     
  18. Shootrman

    Shootrman Member

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    Think of the guy that is classified a "C" shooter and hits a 92 on the first 100
    Then in the afternoon he hits his first ever 100 straight. Now you cant convince me that this guy, because he hit a 100 is sandbaggin......Like DUH!
    Hint! why in Gods name would he not hit the 100 in the first event.

    THNK
     
  19. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Pat - I might agree with you except Gargo seems to feel it necessary to condemn any person shooting a score above his/her average. His comments always are derogatory about shooters in lower classes and/or short yardages, shooting scores above their averages and/or what might be considered their proper ability. Yet I have not seen one comment from him/her about putting some form of restrictions and/or changes that might effect the great shooters of this sport.
    After all they are really the sandbaggers of the sport. They have time, monies and abilities to hone their skills and when they do, (as usual) shoot high scores they suffer no consequences.

    Please realize I am not stating I have any solution to the problem. But as long as we continue to have a system that supports the trully great shooter, we are going to have a problem with those that feel they have to make some form
    of compensation. - Jim
     
  20. Shoot-at-em

    Shoot-at-em TS Member

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    I've been reading these "sandbagging" threads about D and C Class shooters posting high/above their average scores. One thing we all have to remember is its just math. Early on last yeat I had 3 poor singles scores. A 177/200, a 41/50 and an 85/100. It kept me in B Class all season. I had many 48 and 49/50 and usually hit 95 or 96 on 100 bird events and with over 3500 singles targets I barely got my average back to the 94 it was the previous year. So I was a B Class shooter consistantly scoring in the mid 90's. And I didn't even win a trophy last year. lol. But I wasn't sandbagging. Just a victim of the math.

    Keep shooting!
    Frank
     
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