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Pen-Mar Controversy

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BudLight, Feb 15, 2010.

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  1. BudLight

    BudLight Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
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    I've been asked by Linda to post the following:

    With the exception of 1 year, Freddie and I have been running the Pen-Mar League since 2000. During this time, controversies have sometimes arisen, including practicing on the same traps as the league shoot, giving out more yardage at shoots, giving off 2 yds at the beginning of the season, and make-up shoots. We try to address these issues as they come up.

    This year, the controversy over make-ups has been especially contentious. It must be remembered, though, that a shooter who consciously decides not to shoot on a particular day because of the weather, their health or any other reason, risks doing the make-up later under worse conditions or not being able to make-up at all due to the fact that the shoot may be cancelled. In any case, the shooter still must break the targets.

    Most leagues do not allow make-ups. IMHO, the reason for winter shooting is to give the clubs a chance to throw targets and make money during the off-season and to have fun! The more make-ups we have, the more money the clubs make and the more money the league makes for its shooters. This year was particularly nasty weather-wise. We shot in drenching rain, snow, fog, gale force winds and freezing temps. Over 25% of our shooters are senior vets and many more have heart and health problems that preclude them from shooting on bad weather days. Make-ups give them a chance to make enough shoots to qualify for the banquet, trophies, and door prizes. For example, on one rainy day, we had 46 shooters; on the next “good” day, we had 119 with make-ups! In addition to the weather, this year saw people missing shoots because of the flu, their jobs calling them away, and family holiday activities (2 shoots were scheduled the days after Christmas and New Years).

    Out of 1,228 50-bird events, there were 147 make-ups this year. That’s an extra $1,176 to the clubs, $735 to the league and a shoot for those who otherwise would not have been able to make a shoot. Again, IMHO, everybody wins!

    I have been looking forward to this banquet for over a year, now. I have invested a lot of my time and energy trying to make this year a financial success so that we can give back more to our shooters in spite of the difficult economy. Other leagues have seen a large decrease in participation this past year whereas Pen-Mar has increased from 58 shooters/shoot last year to 82 shooters this year (a 41% increase!). I think this has to do with the fact that we are NOT a hardcore “money league.” Sure, there is a spirited rivalry between the 3 clubs (as noted in many of OGC Director’s amusing posts during the season) and a lot of teasing (goodhearted, I hope!) between shooters.

    We have both serious/competitive shooters and “fair weather shooters” and most come for the sheer enjoyment of the social aspects of this league. In no other league have I seen 10-15 people from all clubs get together and go out and share a meal after almost every shoot! It’s a great comraderie!

    I know things have been tense over the last few shoots. But, I sincerely hope that out of respect for me, Freddie, all those who have volunteered to make the league a success and, ESPECIALLY, out of respect for our guests (the young juniors and wives who will be present) that any hard feelings and old prejudices (on both sides) can be put aside for a few hours on Saturday evening so that EVERYONE can enjoy our banquet. After all, 90% of the people who will be there, don’t realize that there’s a problem.

    Thank you!
    Linda Szafraniec
    Cedar Gun Club
     
  2. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Linda, it sounds like you run a very nice league. Leagues have to be fun for and fair to the participants or there won't be very many of them. I ran a winter league here in the Harrisburg area for 13 years and know that doing so involves a lot of time. Keep up what sounds like good work!

    Ed
     
  3. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    990
    So ethics, and fairness to the shooters that shot in the rain and snow, doesn't matter, as long as money is made, is the message I received.
     
  4. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    How much money we talk'n here??? $20, $200, $2,000?
     
  5. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    D***ed if I got that impression from what was written. Since make-ups were allowed and EVERYBODY had the choice to shoot/not shoot in bad weather, it's fair enough.

    MK
     
  6. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    I am a supporter of 'make-up' shoots. Shooting should be fun and allow as many shooters as possible to participate.
     
  7. WTW

    WTW Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    I have no problem with makeup, but the rules should have been followed.

    The rule clearly states a missed shoot must be made up at the next shoot at that club. Unlimited make-ups

    This does not say the first nice day !!!

    Yes there is no doubt LINDA AND FRED do a great job. Linda personaly makes all the Glass Ware herself. If known she spend all her spare time on this from one year to the next.

    I may be wrong but I don't known any of the old shooters who missed more than one or two shoot. Yes they are the back bone of our league.

    I hope this can be straighen out by next year.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  8. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    5,680
    Kindergarten 101....

    Curt
     
  9. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like there was a little stretching of the rules? If so correct it next year, and strictly enforce it.

    Also sounds like on heck of a nice league. Don't blow it by pizz'n off the people that do the work.

    There is only one thing worse than a bunch of people crying about league rules.

    NO LEAGUE AT ALL.
     
  10. Linda S

    Linda S Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    I just want to clear up this misconception that league rules were not followed for make-ups. It is true that the Score Card handed out at the beginning of the league stated that "A missed shoot must be made up at the next shoot at that club. Unlimited make-ups." This was a hold over from a couple of years ago. I just missed changing this phrase when I did the cards for this year.

    All of the fliers that went out for this league (beginning last August) have stated: "A missed shoot at any club can be made-up at the next shoot of that club. No limit on the number of make-ups!" If this is where the confusion lies, it is my fault, and I apologize. Most of our shooters have been aware of this policy for the last couple of years, and this is the first year there has been a problem. It should be noted that of the 147 make-ups this year, most of them were NOT done at the next shoot, primarily due to the lousy weather. And, there were a few people, not just one, who made up more than one shoot when we did get a decent day.

    All I'm asking in my original post is that we all be ladies and gentlemen at the banquet this Saturday and have a great time!

    Linda Szafraniec

    P.S. The "glass ware" happens to be stained glass panels and lamps (stained glass is my other hobby besides trapshooting) that will be given as trophies this year.
     
  11. XP100

    XP100 Well-Known Member

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    Another guy and I ran a 10 week 50 bird league last winter 50/week in skeet and trap.. It was trap and/or skeet. Shoot ahead and make ups were OK except for high gun in trap, skeet and overall high gun for the shooters that shot both. We felt it was omly fair anyone tryinf forHigh gun shoot every week under the same conditions. Seemed to work well.
     
  12. T H Wallace

    T H Wallace Member

    Joined:
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    First off I do not have a dog in this fight, but:

    Linda and Fred do a wonderful job of running the league, and the year they did not run the league.. Dad, and I ran it.

    So with that, i feel I do have a little to say on this issue.

    Make-ups are a double edged sword, You need the make ups, in order for your personal totals to be equal with everyone else. True, you COULD end up with a worse day for a make up, but when you allow them to pick and choose when they can make it up, it is a problem, as we have experienced this year. I feel, if you do not make the scheduled shoot, you should be penalized for not being there. For one, you did not help out your team, which is the main reason for this league. a friendly competition between clubs. It wasn't about how much money the clubs could make, hell Cedars doesn't have a home club.

    MANY of the shooters drove all the way from Baltimore, Elizabethtown, Lancaster, just to shoot in our league. That is a testament as to how good our league really is, unfortunately, when the rules are stretched and misinterpreted, it gives us a black eye.

    Also, its kinda funny, the ones that are screaming the loudest are on the SAME team.

    nuff said..issue is over, hopefully it will be addressed in the league setup meeting next year.
     
  13. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Make ups are a good thing as we all have tight family schedules and lots of other unknowns that hit us at the wronhg time...therefore lots of shooters who would never shot the league at all for fear of missing too many dates have a saving grace,...we need to keep folks coming out to shoot...on those really nasty days ..I didn't notice a single gun to anybodys head to take the line,..that was your own choice,..choose better next year and you wont feel like a fool in need of extra credit for getting frozen or soaked
     
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