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Pelosi a Felon?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by southpark, Apr 6, 2007.

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  1. southpark

    southpark TS Member

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    From the Wall Street Journal opinion page:

    Illegal Diplomacy
    Did Nancy Pelosi commit a felony when she went to Syria?

    BY ROBERT F. TURNER
    Friday, April 6, 2007 11:30 a.m. EDT

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi may well have committed a felony in traveling to Damascus this week, against the wishes of the president, to communicate on foreign-policy issues with Syrian President Bashar Assad. The administration isn't going to want to touch this political hot potato, nor should it become a partisan issue. Maybe special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, whose aggressive prosecution of Lewis Libby establishes his independence from White House influence, should be called back.

    The Logan Act makes it a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to three years for any American, "without authority of the United States," to communicate with a foreign government in an effort to influence that government's behavior on any "disputes or controversies with the United States." Some background on this statute helps to understand why Ms. Pelosi may be in serious trouble.

    President John Adams requested the statute after a Pennsylvania pacifist named George Logan traveled to France in 1798 to assure the French government that the American people favored peace in the undeclared "Quasi War" being fought on the high seas between the two countries. In proposing the law, Rep. Roger Griswold of Connecticut explained that the object was, as recorded in the Annals of Congress, "to punish a crime which goes to the destruction of the executive power of the government. He meant that description of crime which arises from an interference of individual citizens in the negotiations of our executive with foreign governments."

    The debate on this bill ran nearly 150 pages in the Annals. On Jan. 16, 1799, Rep. Isaac Parker of Massachusetts explained, "the people of the United States have given to the executive department the power to negotiate with foreign governments, and to carry on all foreign relations, and that it is therefore an usurpation of that power for an individual to undertake to correspond with any foreign power on any dispute between the two governments, or for any state government, or any other department of the general government, to do it."

    Griswold and Parker were Federalists who believed in strong executive power. But consider this statement by Albert Gallatin, the future Secretary of the Treasury under President Thomas Jefferson, who was wary of centralized government: "it would be extremely improper for a member of this House to enter into any correspondence with the French Republic . . . As we are not at war with France, an offence of this kind would not be high treason, yet it would be as criminal an act, as if we were at war." Indeed, the offense is greater when the usurpation of the president's constitutional authority is done by a member of the legislature--all the more so by a Speaker of the House--because it violates not just statutory law but constitutes a usurpation of the powers of a separate branch and a breach of the oath of office Ms. Pelosi took to support the Constitution.





    The Supreme Court has spoken clearly on this aspect of the separation of powers. In Marbury v. Madison, Chief Justice John Marshall used the president's authority over the Department of State as an illustration of those "important political powers" that, "being entrusted to the executive, the decision of the executive is conclusive." And in the landmark 1936 Curtiss-Wright case, the Supreme Court reaffirmed: "Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it."
    Ms. Pelosi and her Congressional entourage spoke to President Assad on various issues, among other things saying, "We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace." She is certainly not the first member of Congress--of either party--to engage in this sort of behavior, but her position as a national leader, the wartime circumstances, the opposition to the trip from the White House, and the character of the regime she has chosen to approach make her behavior particularly inappropriate.

    Of course, not all congressional travel to, or communications with representatives of, foreign nations is unlawful. A purely fact-finding trip that involves looking around, visiting American military bases or talking with U.S. diplomats is not a problem. Nor is formal negotiation with foreign representatives if authorized by the president. (FDR appointed Sens. Tom Connally and Arthur Vandenberg to the U.S. delegation that negotiated the U.N. Charter.) Ms. Pelosi's trip was not authorized, and Syria is one of the world's leading sponsors of international terrorism. It has almost certainly been involved in numerous attacks that have claimed the lives of American military personnel from Beirut to Baghdad.

    The U.S. is in the midst of two wars authorized by Congress. For Ms. Pelosi to flout the Constitution in these circumstances is not only shortsighted; it may well be a felony, as the Logan Act has been part of our criminal law for more than two centuries. Perhaps it is time to enforce the law.

    Mr. Turner was acting assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs in 1984-85 and is a former chairman of the ABA standing committee on law and national security.
     
  2. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    If she's not a felon for going to Syria, she should be charged with impersonating a U.S. citizen..............Uncle Sam, Pa
     
  3. jimbob

    jimbob TS Member

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    She may not be a felon, but a stupid bitch for sure....
     
  4. Bawana

    Bawana TS Member

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    If the gov has a warrent out for Fischer for playing chess in a country he was not suppose to be in then she should have a warrent out on her for being in a country she was told not to go to.
     
  5. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a> <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a> <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a> <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>



    Jerbear
     
  6. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    does she really not know that she's not supposed to be there, or does she think that she's so special that the law doesn't apply to her?


    brett d.
     
  7. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Felon or not ,she's an embarrasment to this country,and possibly guilty of sedition.
     
  8. kgp

    kgp TS Member

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    This is from Fox News. Looks like the dems aren't the only ones sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Disappointing.

    Ken



    An apparently botched message during a widely discouraged visit by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Syria this week has U.S. officials criticizing rogue efforts at diplomacy among U.S. politicians.

    State Department officials said Thursday they made it quite clear they did not want Pelosi to visit Syria, a nation that is listed as a state sponsor of terror and is home to terror group Hezbollah, which started a low-grade war with Israel last summer.

    Pelosi is the highest ranking U.S. official to go to Syria since former Secretary of State Colin Powell visited the nation in 2003. Defying the White House's Middle East policy by meeting with Syrian President Bashar Assad, Pelosi said, "The road to Damascus is a road to peace."

    • Speakout! Do you think Pelosi's Mideast tour helped or hurt America's relationship with that region?

    After meeting for three hours with Assad on Wednesday, the House speaker announced that the Syrian president is "ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel." Assad has repeatedly said over the past year that Damascus is willing to negotiate with Israel as long as talks lead to the return of the Golan Heights, seized by Israel after it was attacked by Syria and six other neighbors in the 1967 Six-Day War.

    Shocking officials in Jerusalem, where she had visited two days earlier, Pelosi said she also told Assad that Olmert had wanted to relay the message that Israel is ready for peace talks with Syria.

    That came as a surprise to the prime minister, whose office on Wednesday denied any such conversation and said that "what was discussed with the House speaker did not include any change in Israel's policy, as it has been presented to international parties involved in the matter."

    Olmert's office also issued a statement saying it had specified to Pelosi that Israel considers Syria "part of the axis of evil and a party encouraging terrorism in the entire Middle East."

    Pelosi's office on Thursday issued a statement saying that she "accurately relayed" the message from Olmert to Assad, which was that Syria must cease its ties with Hamas and Hezbollah, among other things that the Bush administration also is calling for.

    The statement also downplayed the reaction by Israeli officials, which Pelosi's office said "sought merely to express that the message given to Speaker Pelosi did not indicate a change in Israel's position toward Syria. The speaker neither said nor implied that this message was a change in Israel's position."

    A group of three Republican congressmen also visited Syria in recent days, but with a much lower profile. They too met with Assad. One staff member, however, said the two trips were planned independently and the Republicans were unaware of the speaker's travel plans.

    Rep. Robert Aderholt, R-Ala., issued a statement Wednesday putting distance between his trip with Reps. Frank Wolf of Virginia and Joe Pitts of Pennsylvania. Other Republicans visiting Syria in recent days were Reps. David Hobson of Ohio and Darrell Issa of California.

    "I, along with my colleagues, fully support the Administration's long term strategy and decisions regarding Syria. My visit was in no way an attempt to make foreign policy or negotiate on behalf of the United States government," Aderholt said, characterizing the visit only as a "fact-finding trip."

    U.S. government officials say the visit by Pelosi, and to a lesser extent other members of Congress, weakens efforts to isolate Damascus and cut off Syria for its attempts to undermine Mideast peace.

    "I think the administration's position on members of Congress, Democrat or Republican, is very clear: We do not think it's productive; we do not think it is useful; we do not think it is helpful," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe told reporters Thursday in Crawford, Texas.

    The United States has kept Syria in the loop as part of an international support group for Iraq. U.S. officials sat down with Iran and Syria, among others, in February on ways to improve Iraq's security situation.

    But with the exception of that, diplomacy has been nearly non-existent in an effort to stop Syria in its tracks on everything from its support of terrorist groups such as Hezbollah to what is widely believed to be its role in the assassination of Lebanese leaders, including that of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in 2005.

    "People want to open a dialogue, but just, you know, talking for the sake of talking really doesn't accomplish very much, unless you have some kind of a goal in mind. I mean, what do we want out of the Syrians? What are we asking them to do in these conversations? And that would be interesting to know, I think," Defense Secretary Robert Gates told radio talk show host Laura Ingraham on Wednesday.

    In an interview with ABC News, Vice President Dick Cheney said Assad has "been isolated and cut off because of his bad behavior, and the unfortunate thing about the speaker's visit is it sort of breaks down that barrier."

    Even The Washington Post editorialized in Thursday editions that “Ms. Pelosi's attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish.”

    Click here to read The Washington Post editorial.

    Foreign policy analyst Marwan al-Kabalan contends that the visit by the third-ranking U.S. official and leader of the opposition party in the United States leaves Syria with a strengthened hand.

    "This will help give the impression that Syria is no longer isolated in the world. So now, you can't ask the Europeans or others not to visit the Syrians like you used to before," al-Kabalan, a professor of political science and media, told The New York Times.

    Click here to read The New York Times article.

    Pelosi was careful to say that Democrats and President Bush share no policy differences on Israel, the Palestinians or Syria. While she won praise from Saudi Arabian leaders for her engagement, she did not impress some Syrian commentators.

    "There was a feeling this visit had more to do with domestic politics than us. If she isn't going to be very different from Bush, then why did she come?" asked Jihad Yaziji in The Syria Report.

    • Visit FOXNews.com's Mideast Center for more in-depth coverage.

    FOX News' Jim Angle and Molly Hooper and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
     
  9. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Her constituents must love it, I don't see a recall drive yet.

    Same thing goews for Teddy.


    HM
     
  10. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    I really wish that george would just stand up and go off on these idiots. They're completely out of hand.


    but then, maybe he's just letting them hang themselves in anticipation of the upcoming election.


    brett d.
     
  11. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Agree w/ Bliz. We need GW to get pissed and read them the riot act. They would do it in a heart beat if roles were reversed. Waiting till closer to elections?
     
  12. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    didn't even think about that, setter. can you imagine if the speaker was a repub. and did what she's doing? and what the press would be saying? absolutely GUARANTEE that they would be prosecuting.


    brett d.
     
  13. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    Doctor, what does her VISA credit card have to do with anything? Did you perhaps mean her "passport".
     
  14. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    always keep in mind that it's 70% of THOSE POLLED. and polled by whom? the liberal press? let me conduct a poll on bush and it'll be 100% APPROVAL. polls are horseshit.


    brett d.
     
  15. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I seriously doubt if the majority of the voters realize what a screwing they get.

    Pelosi commits a felony, "cold Cash" Jefferson gets the Homeland Security job, and the state of affairs in Washington is simply a bunch of hungry baboons clawing and scratching for money and power.

    Any normal person doing these things would be locked up so deep they would have to mail daylight to him.

    Average man in the street guys say "Politics makes me sick so I don't follow it". But if you Take away his Nascar or NFL, the roars of indignation would be heard all the way across the ocean.

    Minimum wage, getting the first raise in 10 years, is bogged down in political bullshit and horse trading. Meanwhile, in the same 10 year period, congress has gotten themselves a $35,000 pay raise.

    Thanks, suckers.

    HM
     
  16. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    The particpants of this trip should have been arreseted upon return to the united states for violation of the law. The problem is that the law is very old and un-tested therefore the administration does not want to press the issue without a forsure win. Arressting the speaker could quickly backfire and have the Democrats screaming for the President's head.

    I am starting to wonder if one move citizens of the United States are not QUALIFIED to select our leaders. Times like this make me wish that our founding fathers would have done a better job defining who should and should not be able to vote in elections. Our country is a Republic for a reason, those who vote should do so based upon service to the country not because he or she just happens to be a citizen.

    Ronbo
     
  17. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    the only people who should be allowed to vote are tax payers. The neer-do-wells and other non contributers should not be the ones deciding where the government spends it dollars.
     
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