1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Peg hole three at grand

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Neil Winston, Mar 9, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,849
    There haven't been such targets at the Grand for at least 25 years (with the exception of 1995 and all but the last two days of 1996) . I doubt this will be the year.

    Neil
     
  2. C1

    C1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    222
    Roger, with all due respect, if you want 3 hole targets at the Grand, see if you can get 4 other guys and have the trap set wider when you shoot that trap. I'll bet your scores don't win.

    Get over it already. The horse died in 1996 and doesn't even stink any longer.

    Gary
     
  3. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,119
    Let's see....that's about a $250,000 donation plus naming rights if you want them.

    Bob
     
  4. Alamo

    Alamo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    97
    Are the three hole (Winchester) traps still being manufactured? It seems most traps at present are Pat Traps and do not use a hole system for setting the targets.


    Just curious what does a three hole target equate to in degrees? I believe at present, a target can not exceed 17 degrees left or right from center (total 34 degree arc?).


    Larry Hancock
     
  5. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,622
    Location:
    Mojave Desert
    A "3-hole" target is a straight-away from post 1 or 5.
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,899
    Primed, I like that imagination, quick thinking, great point! LOL, Bob
     
  7. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,047
    So if the rule was established that all ATA targets be thrown in not less than the three hole and since quite a few of the traps now in use are Pats and have no such hole designation, does that mean that Pat traps would no longer be allowed?
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,348
    Location:
    Indiana
    You just change the Pat Trap to three hole, very simple.
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    backwoods, the rule was changed from "not less than a straightaway from post 1 and 5 (three hole) to fluff 'em up as much as possible. This was the result of the actions of a few very vocal crybabies who found it difficult to move the gun a few more inches or carry as high an average on a slightly more difficult target.

    The average shooter doesn't know the difference between any holes (thinking perhaps it's something you dig to plant bushes around the trapline),nor has he likely ever seen the inside of a traphouse. Using that logic, we can safely say the crybabies were shooters who suddenly found the 27yd. line more difficult and winning not quite so easy. Throw in those shooters who preferred an easier setting for carrying high Singles averages over many more targets than the average shooter would ever think of shooting and you've narrowed this group of complainers.

    Flame on!!
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,642
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    I haven't seen the spacer bar but setting the field is not rocket science. Stakes or temporary markers where the target should go on the most extreme angles are easy to place, the hardest part is getting the trap to the point of reversal.

    Spacer bars should be easy enough to fabricate.

    HM
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,849
    I recently hacked into the email account of "backtothefuture.lud," the main source of all these suggestions. I downloaded a confidential document called "Timeline" and here are the highlights.

    2010 Three hole targets

    2011 Replacement of Pat-traps with hand-sets, since only three of the new "long bars" have ever been ordered, and they were shortened when they arrived.

    2012 Canterburys axed, based on the success of hand-sets.

    2016 Sparta reopens as "Ye Sparta" finally with proper lever-operated traps and blackboards for posting scores; computers sold for scrap. Payouts required to be in the form of "Silver Certificates."

    2018 Dress code imposed for all shoots; ideally suits and ties for men, long dresses for women, but in anticipation of court challenges, just suits or dresses, take your choice.

    2020 Membership doubles; everyone plays all the options; trapshooting as we know it is officially labeled "saved." The "Great Leap Forward-Back" declared a success.

    Neil
     
  12. mkstephen

    mkstephen Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    675
    Location:
    Middletown, Indiana
    Three hole targets = 22 deg left - 22 deg right = 44 degrees total.


    Michael Stephenson
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    FlaLagarto, very accurate assumption there guy!

    "Personally I don't see any clubs making this change.. as the "average" shooter would have lower scores and in turn go to the other club near by where they shoot higher scores.. .."

    Jerry, that's exactly the thought processes that validated the cheating practice years ago also. Why shoot these tougher angled targets when we can shoot the easier ones down the road?

    During that era of trapshooting, some clubs did abide by the standards while others threw the easier targets! Why not, ATA isn't going to do anything about it and fast forward to the cheaters winning that battle, period. Since the new breed of Einstein leadership had a difference of opinion on what's best for our organization as a whole, got into a power struggle! A few wanted trap shooting to remain as it was and had worked so well, the other wanted to validate that cheating practice and won out convincing many delegates to ride the easy train. Some delegates even voted against the wishes of their states membership wishes!

    I've always hated cheating and cheaters regardless of excuses used to validate that practice! What the end result of that cheating practice and rule change amounts to, is we now have more targets shot by less shooters. How has that improved the great game of trap shooting? If easier targets are so good as a whole, why not make them even easier, that oughta help a lot more? The real accomplishment was diminishing the records of old shot under more difficult circumstances by those earning their rightful place in our sports history. Two wrongs never makes one right!

    Hap
     
  14. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,080
    Thanks Neil, that was great........ROFLMAO!

    I needed a good laugh this morning and that was some great ideas.

    But, one of the things you missed was going back to the old paper shells with the rolled crimp or brass shotshells. lol

    Hauxfan!
     
  15. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    The root cause of this problem is enforcement. No one at the state or national level was willing to enforce the flight and angle rule except for one target year in the mid 90s.


    To those that think this is an old shooter pissing and moaning about an old rule change let me suggest that there is nothing to prevent a repeat of what happened in the 80s and 90s based on that past history.


    Why shouldn't a club throw 22 degree included angle targets instead of 34 degree if that change results in more attendance for the club???


    Jerry Hauser
     
  16. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,667
    The inception of the trap machine that does not use a hole or a "fixed" pin placement to set angles has KILLED any chance to go back to a three hole system. Get over it and move on..........


    GS
     
  17. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,049
    I think all the lower than average shooter with high scores should get a nobel prize.
    Let the real shooters go back to the 3 hole.

    Or have both events and choose or play both. Regardless whether you are an average shooter or above average making it easier just to get high scores don't mean a dang thing. Youl can tell your wife or children about your high scores but if they don't understand the game you've only fooled them and yourself.

    A rose is a rose by another name.
     
  18. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    I think it started in Texas and Idaho for higher scores and drifted down from there to Silver Dololar for the old retired farts there to break higher scores.

    I know this it changed the results of Grand Slams. And took away the PERFECTION
    of the earlier shooters, as far as I am concerned it was this that has affected
    attendance, and the large money payouts that used to had.

    The good ole boys club " FELLAS WE WILL MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO BREAK HIGHER SCORES WE'LL THROW 2 HOILE TARGETS"

    I know for a fact that some shooters had to reshoot a couple of traps because they were set in the 2 hole position, I belive it was Louie Morgan, Pat Mcarthy and the rest of the squad, I was there when that happened.

    All that needs to be done is go back to the rule book of the 60s and 70s
    3 hole, 1200fps shells, 1 1/8th 7 1/2s max shot size.

    Cry babys can cry nall they want, but that is what the good ole boys shot and they were the best of thest bar none. Leo is included in that early group, as well as Gene Sears, Dan Orlich, Larry Gravestock, George Snellenberger, Frank Little, Doug Bedwell, Ken Jones, Bueford Bailey, Britt Robinson, Dan Bonillas, Larry Russo, Ray Stafford, Kay Ohye, Jerry Hauser, Don Ewing, Steve Carmichael, Brad Dysinger, Roger Smith, Eddie Schneider, Terry Bilbey, Dave Slavich, Vern Brown, Leo Harrison, William Johnson, Phil Ross, Marcellus Osceolla,Mark Organ, Jack Moad, John R. Hall, Mark Warrell, Jim Heckworth, Jim Beck, Jimmy Heller, Andy Smith, Tom Edlin, Phil Shirk, Morris Steinbring, Gerald Sedlac k, kenneth Seidel, Neal Crusaby, Gary Nichols, Phil Kiner, Patrick Moore, Pete
    call, William Sayles, David Powles, Mike Jordan, J.B. Eckles, Tom Strunk, Kenneth Martin, Jimmy Borum, dale Amos, Pat Mcarthy, Daro Handy, Mike Fisher, Bob Gilbertson, Louie Morgan, Ken Admanson, Larry Bumstead,.

    These are the true PLATNIUM-GOLD-SLAMS-HONOREES They did it on the hard 3 hole tagets w/3 dram 1200fps shells, that was all that was allowed and on hand pulled targets. I CONGRATULATE THEM FOR THEIR FEAT. These shooters deserve special recognition from all the rest of the grand slams.

    I have shot w/a lot of you and respected you and your talent,My Special Congratulations to each and every one of you.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life Member
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    Neil seems confused. He seems to equate progress with easier targets. Under that assumption, Trapshooting needs being made easier for forward progress. Why not abolish the 27yd. line and make the 25yd. the new max. After all, most current 27yd. shooters are overwhelmed by that distance.

    That's the way it was at one time!!
     
  20. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,203
    well done Neil
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.