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patterning

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jmac_cope, May 8, 2010.

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  1. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    I took many experienced shooters advise and patterned my new shotgun. Much to my surprise, my shotgun is shooting most of the shot in the lower half of the 30" circle, leaving the top half with very sparse hits. It is clear that I would have to completely cover the target to get it in the center of the pattern. What are some available things I can try to raise the pattern more to the top of my point of aim?
     
  2. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    A little info missing here . What kind of gun - Choke-tubes What choke did you use to pattern it and 36-40 yards ????
     
  3. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    To really check the POI (not the pattern) it works best to shoot around 13 yards. That way you see clearly just where the point of impact is in regard to the aiming point. The patterning done (I presume) at 35-40 yards does not really give you the best idea. If your gun does indeed shoot low (as your pattern testing suggests) then you can raise the point of impact by raising the comb, either through an adjustable comb if your gun has one, or you can add some sort of pad or other to the comb to raise it. Just how much is individual. But first verify the POI with the shorter range testing.

    Jim R
     
  4. mkstephen

    mkstephen Active Member

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    Before changing anything make sure you pattern from a bench and sand bags and not off-hand.


    Also like jimrich60 said pattern at 13 yds. When you do it's best to do it on cardboard and not a steel plate. At 13 yds many times the shot will bounce off the plate and come back at you if the plate is not angled down slightly.


    Michael Stephenosn
     
  5. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    I am shooting a Benelli Montefeltro 28" with Carlson full choke at 40 yards from a rest. Jim, I will take your advise about shooting closer. My concern is that if I shoot closer, I will not be able to see the margin of error that I can see at 40 yds. I shot 1 1/8 OZ 7 1/2 and when counting the pattern board, I had 220 hit in the bottom half of the 30" in circle and 86 in the top half. I shot 4 patterns and it turned out abut the same.
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    jmac, I think I'm beginning to see how you did this. It _is_ a way to do it that's true enough, but probably not the best way (until the POI question is answered.)

    I'm thinking you got one of those "patterning papers" with a circle and a clay target in the center of that circle. And you shot at the clay target images and counted all the pellets as you are told to do in the text at the edge of the paper.

    When patterning, you want to know two things: how many and where.

    Where? My estimate is that the center of your pattern in these tests was about four or maximum five inches low, that is, five inches below the image of the clay target. That's death. So the first thing to do is go to your local pharmacy and get some Moleskin® from Dr. Scholl's (not Molefoam, Moleskin) and build up the stock, mostly on the top and just a little on the face-side maybe three or four layers. Then shoot it for a while and see how it works.

    Then you can come back and do the "how many" test. You see, if you use that kind of paper (and there's no reason not to, once you have the POI worked out) you have to center the pattern. Otherwise you lose pellets from the top or bottom, or even the side. So the "count" doesn't count.

    Do the POI up close, off a rest, but you are already using a rest so you are almost there already. Then do the pellet count at some distance. If you shoot singles use, maybe, 34 yards or some other number near that. If you shoot handicap, use 40 yards.

    Really you are doing fine. You are one of the 1% of shooters who will really make the effort to find out what's going on, and so, in the long run, will beat almost all of them. You just have to refine things a bit, that's all.

    And best of luck; I mean it,

    Neil
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    An out of round forcing cone will pattern about like that too. I had a bad cone job on my TM-1 and it patterend weak on the left side of the pattern! A new cone reamer and polish job brought it back to great patterns again.

    Hap
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Do the easy stuff first. Worry about the forcing cone - well - never.

    Neil
     
  9. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    "I am shooting a Benelli Montefeltro 28" with Carlson full choke at 40 yards from a rest. Jim, I will take your advise about shooting closer. My concern is that if I shoot closer, I will not be able to see the margin of error that I can see at 40 yds. I shot 1 1/8 OZ 7 1/2 and when counting the pattern board, I had 220 hit in the bottom half of the 30" in circle and 86 in the top half. I shot 4 patterns and it turned out abut the same. "

    JMAC

    Shooting at 13 yards will let you see where the center of impact is (the POI) not what kind of pattern you get. You first need to know that POI and the short range will give you a pretty well concentrated shot "group" that allows you to see better what that center is. For instance if the shot "group" or hole is 1 inch above your point of aim, then extrapolating, the "pattern" will be about 3 inches high at 39 yards. Essentially a 60-40 setting. 2 inches at 13 would equal 6 inches high at 39, and so forth. Once you have established the actual POI, then you can adjust it up or down by raising or lowering the comb (which raises or lowers the "rear sight" which is actually your eye). Pattern, on the other hand, is subject not only to choke, but the shell used, and other factors, which you can experiment with once you have worked out the POI you want.

    Jim R
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Neil, does that mean the cutting tools can't be worn out to get that last unit out to market? I told the man of an experience I had with a less than honest hurry up smith and the end results. "well-never" is a tad drastic when looking for an unknown problem I'd think? I agree the chances are slim but still a possibility regardless.

    Hap
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I'll accept slim, Hap.

    Neil
     
  12. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    JUmaccope: One thing that Benelli Montefeltro is not a trap gun and most shoot 50/50 w a good tube, you may want to try some different tubes first.

    The 13 yards will only you the pattern location to see if it is centered and an
    idea of POI.

    Do this first, then try different tubes, suggest an IM tube next to pattern off a rest at 35 yards.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  13. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    Just to leave a follow-up to those who helped me, I Shot my gun from a rest at 13 yds and found my POI was two inches below point of aim. I started building up the comb with mole skin and shot after 3 thin layers. the POI changed to 1" low. After 2 additional layers, POI was dead on. I added 2 more layers after that and POI was about 1 in high. I re-patterned at 40 yards and got a completely different result than previously. It shot close to 60/40 with 67-72% hits in 30" circle. As most of you probably already knew, my previous pattering was unsuccessful because I was loosing hits out the bottom of the circle. The future will see how this all plays out at the 16.

    Thanks
     
  14. SonoraMike

    SonoraMike TS Member

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    interesting thread, good info for beginners such as myself. this one should go in an FAQ pinned somewhere for future reference
     
  15. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    I wouldn't shoot at a pre-drawn circle to establish PE. I shoot at blank paper then draw the 30 inch circle. That eliminates aiming error.
     
  16. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    pretty hard to worry about aiming error when sandbagged down at 13 yards.
     
  17. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    I've owned three Benellis & all shot lower than a 50/50 pattern......more like a 40/60 in my experience.
     
  18. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    that is sure my experience too! I don't want the mole skin as a permanent answer to the POI issue. I am going to look to a stock maker for a stock with an adjustable comb. \btw do you know anything about the shims that come with the gun? can they raise the Poi?
     
  19. willing

    willing Member

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    The shims will help a little and you can get different ones from the company.

    Bill
     
  20. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    jmac, You can't beat Tron, a frequent reader/poster here, for a quick turn around, quality work, reasonably priced. Good luck, Bob
     
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