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Patterning-Opened A Can Of Worms!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Spanky, Apr 14, 2007.

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  1. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    Spent some time today at the patterning board. Had the whole range to myself. This is something that I don't do very often. Wanted to put (2) new choke tubes on paper instead of just popping them in the gun and start shooting a few rounds with them.

    Both tubes patterened alot tighter than I thought they would (full,improved modified). My point of impact was o.k., the gun does shoots high at 25-30 yards. I shot 7 1/2 and 8's with both wad styles I use. I use the same powder but two different charge weights. This is were I saw things change and started to get confused the more I shot. I started to compare old and new tubes, the load I feel I shoot best with, patterened the worst, my load I shoot the least, patterned the best (looking) on paper. Nothing looked that bad in the long run. Every combination will break targets.

    By seeing these different patterns it just starts playing mind games with me to a degree. I'm going to use my new tubes with the load that I have the most confidence in and go shoot some rounds. The paper doesn't lie but, I have to see what it does on that flying piece of clay.
     
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as a nonproductive trip to the patterning board.
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    That's why they always told us " If it destroys birds, don't pattern it" what you may learn can hurt you....

    jim
     
  4. pfofml

    pfofml Member

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    Some years ago I took a clinic from Frank Little. When asked about patterning, he did not recommend it. What he did say was an absolute must was to shoot at paper at close range to assure that the gun does not shoot left or right of center. As for shooting high or low, deal with that when shooting moving targets. Concerning patterning; "watch how the target breaks and make adjustment accordingly."

    Peter Falk III
     
  5. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    Talk about shooting to the left or to the right. When I bought this trap gun back some years ago. I had to have one of those magnetic hi-viz sights to stick on my rib. I went to the pattern bench back then before I ever shot a round with it. It shot noticably to the left on paper. I said there is no #$%^ way this gun can be off that much. I took off the hi-viz sight want back to shooting more paper and my point of impact was high and centered. That Hi-Viz Sight has not been touched since.

    I'm not against a hi-viz sight but, not sold on a magnetic base type. Some day I get one that is a screw in type for my front sight.
     
  6. cmptrwz1

    cmptrwz1 TS Member

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    If you are going to pattern a shotgun do it right frist it takes at least five rounds of each load that you are going to shoot at a set distrance to the board like 35 yards to the board and your target is mark with a center point and then draw a 30 inche circel around the center then fire the five rounds than take the five sheets of paper and and draw a line center of the top and the center from the side which will now give you four equal section see if the load and the choke are doing what you what them to do frist to see how high the pattern is to the center point and then how much shot is landing within the 30 inch circel to see if there any hole in the pattern and that the shot evenly placed by the choke and the choke has put the max pellets in the circel this is for 16 yards you can get the shot count from any shot table 1oz and 1 1/8 oz loads this will know tell you what your pattern will look like and that distance the tight the pattern the better the brakes the loser the pattern the bigger the pice brakes and higher the miss will be the rest is then up to you To get the shot on the target
     
  7. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    I have had my gun since 1983 and have never patterened it and would not think of doing it now maybe it would had been ok when I first got it but I also think it would play mind games with you after shooting it for so long.

    Foghorn
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Spanky, first of all you were expecting way, way too much from your patterning experiments.

    You started off with the idea of "putting them on paper" which is a great idea in case one didn't shoot straight but I guess both do so that's been cleared up and really that's all you need to know.

    As for the rest: tubes, wad shot size, what-all: You didn't get anything because you didn't test anything.

    OK, sure, you shot a couple with this and maybe one with that, but the overriding fact about patterns is that they are much more alike than they are different. This means you have to know what the patterns from tube A, wad Y, shot weight z, shot size aa, and so are like, and to do that you need ten and you have to count every pellet besides. So that's ten. . In two tubes, sticking with just shot weight, that's 20. Two wads make it 40, and two shot sizes, 80 patterns. And to try other combinations, say powder n and wad whatever, that another 80. It would quickly mushroom into thousands and no one can do that.

    So you have to get this under control. Pick a shotsize, 8 unless you are on 27. Pick a wad, something compatible with your case.

    Then you have a problem which you can solve. Which choke tube should I shoot? That's just 20 patterns, and they, when counted, will give you an answer for the distance you did the test at. Most likely, you won't be able to tell which is better for singles, but use the tighter one for handicap.

    You can't tell shotweight since in patterning, more is always better. You can't tell shot size, 8's are always better. So just do the tubes and have fun.

    You may think I'm saying you wasted your time at the pattern board today, but in fact I think you've learned perhaps the most important thing. To pattern and actually get any results is so much work that almost no one will ever do it and those few that do will have a wealth of data, numbers, details to go along with their claims. But at the club what you will hear is "extended tubes work better" or "my gun shoots 8's better" or "Super-lite powder gave more even patterns." Now you know what would be required to find things like out, you know you can just put all that stuff out of your mind - they are just making it u anyway, after all - and get on with your shooting.

    Neil
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    SPANKY - Supporting sound conclusions from shooting paper takes a lot of work. To com pair your old full tube to your new full tube would require 20 pattern sheets (10 each) and a lot of counting holes for a day or two after you left the range. You could discover that one tube gave a slightly tighter pattern that might make a slighter higher probability of hitting a long range handicap target. Perhaps the improvement might be as much as 1 in 250 birds.

    Some enjoy technical comparisons. Neil has done much work for us along these lines. For example, he clearly demonstrated that Green Dot powder did produce a slighter tighter pattern than another powder at the same velocity. This suggests that Green Dot might help just a bit when shooting handicap. However, when he goes to a shoot, he buys factory ammunition, with an unknown powder, and concentrates on keeping his head down.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    Neil, Pat and all thanks for the great advise. You are right, I probably didn't accomplish much for the amount of paper I put hole through. But both old and new tubes do shoot straight. I don't want to mess with my primary load. I load a 1 1/8 oz. shell. I shoot #8 at 16's, #7 1/2 at some hdc. and international with the same load. The combination of components has been fine for years. My second type of load I shoot is very, very rarely used, it is used only when my shoulder is bothering me. Got something going on there, arthritis, rotator problem or something. Bought a semi trap for this problem but I don't like switching guns. The Beretta Semi Trap is a great gun. I would highly recomend one to someone. But I'm so use to shooting my Browning I find it hard to shoot it. I'm a creature of habit.

    I'm on occasion going to keep messing around on paper some to look at patterns. My gun does have a high poi which is centered. I'm going to shoot with my new tubes installed and the load I've been using. The real test will be on the clay birds.
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I am not big on patterning a gun for anything other than point of impact (POI) because :

    Once you fire the shell what ever pattern you have on the paper will never be duplicated again, because like snow flakes there are no two shells exactly the same ...

    If you see a hole in your pattern on one shell it may or may not (probably not be) be in the same area of the pattern with the next shell, because there are no two shells exactly the same ...

    As stated, I believe it plays mind games with the person shooting the pattern because there are no two shells exactly the same and therefore the difference will not matter because it will never be duplicated again ...


    I see a "pattern" here that is the same and its that once you shoot a certain shell, what you got will never be duplicated again no matter how many shells you shoot becuase like snowflakes there are no two shells exactly the same ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    HEY Spanky, With a bad shoulder I would lighten up on your loads. Try 1 oz or 7/8 oz you can use less powder and less shot is less recoil. They shoot international trap with 7/8 loads now instead of 1 oz and the scores went up. I was a 1 1/8 man for 40 years now I shoot 7/8 loads and am shooting better than ever. I may go to 1 oz if I get back past 23 yards but I have seen lots of winning scores from distance with 1 oz. This is my experience your results may vary but I would experiment if it was my shoulder.

    Buddy
     
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