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Patriot or traitor

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by broadway john, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. broadway john

    broadway john Well-Known Member

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    Is Edward Snowden a Patriot or traitor for revealing NSA data mining of phone and internet usage? I feel he is a Patriot, he literally gave up the rest of his life to inform us of governmental abuse of power. Some may think what the government is doing is legal because of the Patriot act, however the NSA has exceeded the letter of the law, and the ACLU is suing the government because of this. Let's see if the lawsuit goes any where.
     
  2. Tom421

    Tom421 TS Member

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    The story is being written, to early to judge. Sure is looking like a big pile of #@&?. I pray for this Country, what are we doing to ourselves. The government needs to remember "In God We Trust" and "You Reap what You Sow"
     
  3. SBray

    SBray Active Member

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    I don't think he is either. I think he meant well but violated the code of his employment.

    If you asked the same question right after 9/11, most people would probably think the guy was a traitor. He violated the conditions of his sensitive job assignment and should go to prison.

    In theory, the calls are stored and only checked for patterns. If a pattern develops, they can get a search warrant to listen to what is being said. I don't have a problem with that. Anyone can listen in on any of my phone calls and they won't catch me doing anything illegal, so who cares. If I were a terrorist or criminal, then I would not want it going on.

    The problem with storing any sensitive information is who has it, and what are they capable of doing with it. As we have seen recently with the IRS, information can be abused.

    Steve
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The government is violating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

    Snowden blew the whistle on that.

    That's the risk the government takes when it operates outside the confines of the law.

    This is probably the tip of the iceberg. I'm waiting for more shoes to drop.
     
  5. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    This whole administration is operating outside the confines of the law and they are counting on their assessment that the entire American public is a bunch of completely stupid rubes.

    They are also currently finding out more and more each day that we are not a bunch of completely stupid rubes, and that under estimation is currently chewing on their collective ass.

    I personally think this could go Watergate, or at least I hope it does.

    I case you guys missed it, eversince Watergate,and the demise of Nixon, the Right has been villified as the party of old rich white guys who lie to the under classes and run the country for thier own profit, and the Dems have been pretty successful at selling that narative.

    Obama having to resign or being Impeached and Convicted would certainly level the playing field and swing the coutry back to the right. Or as they say on Wall St a "major correction!"

    As far as this Whistle Blower guy is concerned he looks pretty credible to me. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. Way to early to call him anything definative.

    WE have all seen how loose data can and will be abused by the govt or assholes in said govt. No reason whatsoever to trust that they will act right this time either. too many people to control and not enough oversight.

    The simple fact is that, the whole show has gotten way too big and now is out of control to the point that the guy who is supposed to be running it has no interest in the job.

    Time for another Major Correction!

    Randy
     
  6. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    Comparing Snowden to Manning, which is the strategy of the administration , is like comparing dead people to raped people. Bradley Manning put many soldiers in harms way. Snowden, without harming anybody, blew the whistle on a corrupt administration.

    There is no difference between Snowden and Deep Throat.


    Darr
     
  7. Avatar

    Avatar TS Member

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    Another huge difference between the two situations is that Snowden blew the whistle on an unconstitutional (I think) scheme of spying on the rest of us that, without him speaking out, could not even have been challenged because of the gag order that Verizon was under. Now that he has brought this practice to light, the ACLU has already launched a lawsuit (one of the times I wholeheartedly agree with the ACLU).
     
  8. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Traitor and narcissist same as that other traitor on trial. They both need to pay for violating the law and their obligations associated with holding a TSSI clearence.


    Guy Babin


    Retired career cryptologist
     
  9. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely with you Guy...if you take the oath and cant follow the rules of trust that come with it due to it going against your conscience..then get the heck out and take up another career...loose lips STILL sink ships
     
  10. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    To early to tell, leaning towards the Patriot side though.

    I get a kick out of the phrase being thrown out, "law breaker"!!

    DC is so FULL of them and yet WE keep paying them!!!!!! and ALLOWING them to hold their jobs!!

    Then there is, "treason"!!

    Who ATTACKS our Constitution and gets a PASS for doing so???????
     
  11. trapperwads

    trapperwads Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Obama and Holder and crew take an oath to obey the Constitution?
     
  12. 548

    548 Guest

    So who do I trust determining the constitutionality of this? The bafoons posting in this thread or the court which authorized it?
     
  13. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Yes they did..and so did those traitors...there ARE proper channels to handle unconstitutional or illegal actions within the rule of law
     
  14. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    The a$$holes in DC need to remember the country is supposed to be run by we the people under the articles in the constitution not what ever we pols and bureaucrats feel like doing when and what we want

    The giverment has overstepped the constitution big time, I really don't see how he could be a traitor if he is helping the country stop tyrannical government

    They all take oaths, but a lot ignore them
     
  15. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    "The bafoons posting in this thread or the court which authorized it?"

    Your not that ignorant are you 548???

    Most here know the difference between Right and Wrong.
     
  16. drgondog

    drgondog Member

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    I don't know. What I do know is that he elevated the data storage and mining of NSA (and CIA/DOJ/IRS/DHS/HHS and EPA - by extension and zero stated firewalls).

    By implication and the news that Eric Schmit placed Google resources to support Obama, we fully understand how ALL the search engines may search PC's, phones, home security systems - anything connected to WiFi/Internet to get ANY information. It may or may not be legal - but the power is there and we have demonstrated that power and authority are not necessarily connected.

    We do know that the FISA court has zero oversight and that they are untethered regarding declaring You a Terrorist, said noun Not defined by the Congress, and you will NEVER have the right to representation of appeal.

    Exposing this by the subcontractor via the Guardian accomplished much more than Rand Paul's and Ron Wyden's efforts to repeal or modify FISA, the Patriot Act, NDAA. Because of the factual political abuses from Holder on Fox, and IRS on Tea Party and Religious groups - we now know that the power of these records of all our electronic transmissions are subject to political abuse.

    Net - he has in my mind performed a huge service to those that think the Feds have over reached - including Bush Admin - but Obama has taken it to incredible depths of power abuse.

    If he lives, he may be upheld by Supremes as Ellsburg some 45+ years ago.

    If he 'disappers' the whole mess about illegal murder of US citizens, without due process, will blow up in Obama's face.

    Respectfully,

    Bill - Curmudgeon from Scurry
     
  17. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Wow, let's look at the military first - an 'unlawful order' is no order at all... and while I agree there are channels in place to protect the Constitution and the People there are clearly times and places where this is bent, twisted, perverted, subjugated.

    I think this may be one of those times.

    As an odd example look at the case of Obama's citizenship, birth certificate, and social security number - clearly there is enough data to suggest something is not right, but the courts refuse to allow for follow through.

    Whistle Blower laws were created to protect those who brought injustice to light - be it business, medicine, whatever, when applied to the good of the people - NOT the whim of the government.

    I suspect there is a strong argument of same in this case.

    -

    I agree with Darr on his typification of Bradly Manning for putting people in harms way as opposed to exposing illegality.

    -

    Now for those of you who think Snowden IS a traitor I must ask your take on the recent attempt to pass 'reasonable gun control laws.' After all, they will violate the Constitution - but just a little, and it is for your own good. Just let us pass the laws and you can try to get the SCOTUS to throw it out - how's that work for you??
     
  18. trapperwads

    trapperwads Well-Known Member

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    Snowden may be guilty of something but the tyrants in this administration lie, cover-up or put a spin on it like they are doing now to Snowden to take the heat off themselves. Obama doesn't care about the Constitution or American citizens, does what he wants to achieve his own goals which to some including me are sinister. Fast and Furious, Bengazi, black panther thug voter intimidation in Philadelphia, IRS, James Rosen, the AP and who knows what we haven't found out about including his complete background details. If I had to pick only one criminal you can bet your shorts it would be Obama over Snowden as the most guilty of the most crimes. ed nichols
     
  19. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that!! trapper!!

    To excuse a politician just because he/she is one, is accepting tyrants for who they are.
     
  20. Bluzman98

    Bluzman98 Member

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    As a rhetorical question...given the scope and nature of the information he had, who was he going to go to and reveal his findings- the Government? What agency?

    It would have been buried deeper than Jimmy Hoffa.

    Think about it...

    Jim C