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Pat Trap rear Wedge?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DENNISMASTROLIA1, Mar 26, 2009.

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  1. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    In order to have more of the targets "face" shown during it's flight I have recently heard that some of those in the know place a wedge under the back of the machine frame.Will this accomplish more target color/face to be seen? Or is there another way to accomplish this? Thanks--.
     
  2. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    mechanical engineering 101 would seem to say that raising the rear of any thrower would result in seeing a flatter target. Not to mention a lower than legal target.


    --- Chip King ---
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Counter productive. Put a wedge in, flatter target. Raise machine, back to where you were with the exception of losing some of your tailwind adjustability.

    You'll get more face by raising the front, but the same situation will apply in reverse.

    The target still has to go the distance(or make the desired speed if you use radar) so a certain amount of spring is necessary. The height adjustment is in the book. If you want more face you have to throw them at the top of the reccommended height adjustments. And as slow as they can legally fly.

    This is the same kind of thinking that brought about the 2 hole madness.

    HM
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It won't work. The face angle of the target is determined by the angle of the plate. This angle also regulates the target height at 10 yards. If a wedge is placed under the front of the trap, it will result in the target height increasing and then the plate angle would have to be lowered. A wedge in the back of the trap would lower the target. The only way to keep the height correct and increase the amount of target face showing is to move the trap forward in the house.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. BAP

    BAP TS Member

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    I agree with Pat on this one. You move the machine forward or lower the entire machine to get more face. That being said there are certain measurements that are supposed to be followed concerning machine placement in the house that are never checked but should be. Bill Parson Jr.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bill- I did just think of another factor that affects the amount of face seen by the shooter. A tall shooter will see slightly more face than a short shooter. I am taller than you so my targets should be a bit easier than yours. But that observation leads to another question. The few times we have shot together, you beat me by several targets. How can this be explained?

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. PatMan

    PatMan Member

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    The amount of target face shown is determined by the height of the trap machine. The prescribed position is: the bottom of the base of the trap frame should be 12" below grade. Grade being the height of the pad where you stand when shooting from the 16 yd. line. The best way to check is to use a transit. Also make sure that the mounting frame of the trap machine is perfectly level...
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of which machine you are using I believe the target is supposed to sit on the machine at grade level. This may very well result in a Pat machine mounted 12 inches below grade. (I have to go check ours, lol)

    HM
     
  9. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    I think Dennis only had half the story...

    If you raise the back of the trap it is true you will effectively throw a lower/flatter target.

    BUT - if you then adjust the machine to throw a target of correct height the target plate will be closer to vertical and hence you will see more of the top of the target - relatively. (granted the target flight path will be more of a parabola than it was before - and yes you will be trading off height/speed issues to throw a target of the proper height.)

    Think about it for a minute.

    David D
     
  10. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    NOPE think about it for a second David. If you put a wedge in the back you have changed the angle of the target plate from its nominal 18 - 22 degrees IIRC to something less. Then when you adjust it back to the correct height all you have done is put the angle of the target plate back to its nominal value therefore the angle of the bird leaving the plate has not changed. Pat is correct. The only way to show more face is to lower the entire machine in the house or move the entire machine forward, both of which would cause you to need a higher angle on the plate to get the bird the correct height at the measurement point. That is why there are specific rules about where the thrower sits in reference to the field. These measurements are checked and must be correct before a field is certified but as Bill said I don't think they are checked much afterward.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  11. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Look at the target, shoot the target !!!!!
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Now, Bob, you know that's not complicated enough......Geez!

    HM
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Who thinks up this stuff?
     
  14. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Thanks for all of the great response.I am now much more clear on this issue.Dennis.
     
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