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pat trap questions

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by maclellan1911, May 29, 2010.

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  1. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    if all things where perfect....at what angle would the throwing arm need to be @ to have the targets 10' high 10 yards away ?

    Also what is the easiest way to set the maximum angles in the field. I have no idea how to this with out some sort of special tools ? I got lots of string though.
     
  2. Ron M

    Ron M Member

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    Place a t-bar or just a stick of pvc pipe 9' long 30'out from the trap at the same elevation of the table with the machine set stright away, throw the targets to the top of the stake.Set the angles so a hard right is a stright from inside post one and a hard left is from inside post five and you will be very close.
    Ron M
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have had poor luck setting the height of targets by using an angle gage on the table. The correct angle when the wind is not blowing depends on the location of the machine in the house. When the wind is blowing, the angle of the table is of little value.

    Ron- I believe positioning the height bar at 26 yards from post three is better than placing it 10 yards from some point on the trap. I also believe measuring the height from post three is much better than measuring the height from the trap machine. Also, if I were to put a 9 foot pole 10 yards in front of my local traps, you could not see the top of the pole from post three. We shoot off the side of a mountain. I like a 12' section of PVC pipe placed 26 yards from and level with position three. Marks at 9 feet and 10 feet from the base of this height pole should be used to set the height. Nine and a half to 10 feet is the preferred height at most clubs.

    The angles are set from the shooting positions and Point B on the trap house. Point B can be difficult to accurately measure. But on most trap houses, if you put a mark or even a target chip in the center of the house 18 inches from the front edge, you will be close to Point B. A better way of locating point B is measuring 16 yards form post three. The maximum angle I like is between one big step (36 inches) from the center of post one toward post two and point B. It is important to watch several targets to get the angles set properly. When shooting from post one or five is is simple to watch the targets of every other shooter and see if the angles are too wide or too narrow.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. porky

    porky TS Member

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    The rule book states that you set a pole 10 yards in front of the cocked arm on the trap machine. You set a pole with the base at the level( same height) of the bird on the throwing arm the elevation that the bird,after reaching the 10 yard stake in front of the trap house, is 8 to 10 feet in order to be legal. If a wind moves that bird in that short distance, it might be to windy to shoot trap
     
  5. maka

    maka Member

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    I do believe Pat has hit right!! I also shoot at a club whear itis inpossible to set height. 10yds, 20yds. or futher we woild fall into a pond.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Git-ER-Done- My rule book does not say "10 yards from the cocked arm" but it does mention point B. Target height may be measured from the arm, this is recommended when placement of the traps is inconsistent.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Country Squire

    Country Squire TS Member

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    maclellan1911, 21 or 22 degrees on the throwing platform will give you a 9~10 foot target. The angles are set with the limit switches and are 2 5/16 from the end of the cylinder on a new style trap from Ser# 2740 with 4 1/4 between the switches measuring from the left side facing the trap. the old style before ser# 2739 with the curved bar that the limits are on should be 15/16 from the right side facing the trap with 2 15/16 between the switches. these measurements are from the Pat Trap manual and I hope this helps George
     
  8. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    As I understand it guys. If you run a string thats on the concrete midway between post one and two and four and 5. Have the strings cross at 30 feet dead center in front of the trap house and dead level.set your hoop at 10' above this point. If you have a 50 yard stake thats centered out front of your trap. Measure out left and right 44 feet. Take 2 steps in and put down cones or some other visual. This will be damn near dead nuts on 17 degrees. If you dont have a stake continue on with the strings that you used to set the height say 20-30 yards and again set some kind of visula devise. Either of these methods will give you the correct angle. This of course is assuming your trap is centered correctly in the house and the field is square to the trap house.
    Theres a notch on the base of Pat traps. This notch should be on the center line of a line you run from dead center of the 27 through the 16 yard line to find dead center of the trap house. Then mark the front of the lid. Drop a plumb bob, Center the notch on the Pat with this center line. If you can put a stake at 50 yards? Run the string on out 50 yards and set the stake. Then the 44' left and right will be optimized.
    We use a chalk string without chalk with a string premeasured at 44' with a loop in it, loop around the stake and walk on out set the cones. Speeds up the process. The we set orange cones for a visual to set the targets. Whats also important? set the hieght and the SPEED before you set your angles. Speed will effect the angles.
    We also use an Ice Cube relay as a shorting block. We remove the interupter and put this in so the trap continuse to osilate. Saves birds.
    Pain in the ass to do all this but the targets are correct and the shooters appreciate it.

    Thats how we do it in Cottage Grove Oregon

    Dennis
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    KingBang:

    If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds to me that your method with the strings would never show the correct angles. Straight lines from 1.5 and 4.5 crossing at 30 feet in front of the trap will be weak angles. They should cross at Point B, not out in front of the house.
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Well I @ least know where point B is now.
    So 10yards from point B, 8'-10' high level with the throwing arm,
    our trap was "tuned up and checked out and adjusted" by pattrap ???
    maybe by specs in a book but the field has no markers and I felt as if the targets where very low? Work in progress.
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Put out stakes for the angle targets.

    Set the switches so the max angle hit the stakes. You can find the max angle of the machine by holding a piece of cardboard or a stick on the angle cylinder rod, when it reverses the stick will show where the machine changes direction. Now move the trap manually to that point and throw a target, compare with your angle stake.

    Move switch as necessary.

    HM
     
  12. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    how do those switches work are the magnetic ?
     
  13. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Set the angles at a straight-a-way from 1½ and 4½. Height 9½', 26 yards from pad three, off a stake level with pad three.
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    First, I don't know much about Pat Traps.

    Based on everything I read here, and my observations, it seems it is likely there are some clubs that really don't have these traps set properly.

    In the old days, you could generally set it in the center hole, throw a target and make sure the field was centered, change to the 2 or 3 hole and your angles would be pretty well set. My question with the Pat Traps is: it seems to me a club that really did not understand things could have the field off by quite a bit since it seem the limits on the left and right extremes are set independently of each other by the club. Am I correct?

    I thought there was a bar or something you were supposed to use between the switches that would set the maximum target spread, but based on the posts above that talk of using string to set stakes and then set the switches to throw to the stakes, all I see is the introduction of a great chance for human error. Case in point would be the club mentioned earlier setting those switches to throw from 1.5 and 4.5 based on the strings crossing at the 10 yard stake.

    Is there a way to know if the field is properly centered or is that dependent on the machine being properly aligned with the field when it is installed?
     
  15. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    PATS come with a #2 bar to keep the switches apart. The whole set is then moved left or right to center the field. Using 1½ and 4½ might be a tad narrow but real close. Our PATS were purchased at three different times and all three field widths had to be tweaked to match each other. I feel consistent widths are more important to a shooter than the actual width. Ever shoot three fields with two hole targets and then finish with three holers? Hittable and legal but it plays on the mind.
     
  16. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks 3200. I agree consistency is important. My issue is that it seems I find traps that after watching all day certainly seem to be throwing much more severely to one side than the other. I am more concerned with that than the actual widths. With a handset I could set it in the center hole and see if the field was off, but what do you do to make sure the field is straight on a Pat? Is it based on a variable such as different shooters deciding that the first angle set is a straight away from say 1.5 and then the bar is placed? Do all clubs use the bar, doesn't sound like it from the posts above.

    EDIT: OK, I read the Pat trap instructions and understand how it works. Does not seem easy to check the settings other than observing the targets. I'm willing to bet some smaller clubs might have some difficulty here. Are the bars used by everyone?
     
  17. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    I just went thru this at our field. I measured 26 yards from station three. That gave me my 10 yards from trap machine. I then shot the height out there and compared the difference between station three and at 26 yards. My difference was 2'8". That means 10 yards out is 2'8" higher that station three. So 10' minus 2'8" gave me how tall my hoop had to stand (7'4") so I was in regulation. I have even ground out there but I would use this simple method anywhere. I also set my target speed at 42mph. As far as field angles go my Pattrap has "two hole" spacer between two magnets. By sliding those magnets left or right I was able to move the field. Dave T.
     
  18. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for bearing with me on this. How do you know the field is centered? On the old traps if the center hole was a straight away the field was centered, and the angles were automatically set by the hole selection.

    On the Pat, using the "bar" or "spacer", the spread is automatically set but that doesn't address making sure that the field is centered. It seems to me it's easy to have the field not centered.

    There has to be something else involved that hasn't been mentioned yet regarding making sure the field is centered.

    I'm not knocking the Pat Traps; just trying to draw out the proper methods to use. I've been to a couple of clubs, not registered shooting clubs, that appear to have the fields offset to one side or the other. Others have noticed this as well. When asked, nobody could explain how they know the field is centered. Is it dependent on the trap installation; does it involve measuring one of the switches after manually setting the machine to throw a straight target, then using the spacer to ensure the proper spread, etc?

    Thanks
     
  19. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    I watch the straight a ways on a trap from 1½ and 4½, that tells me if the field is centered. I often check the targets at our club while scoring, just move the chair and observe the targets.
     
  20. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    That can work when scoring or watching a trap for a long time, but seems a little imprecise when setting targets. How many targets do you have to throw to be sure you have seen enough full angle targets to judge. Or do you set the machine manually to the switches and then observe the field? Assuming you have one switch set to throw a straight away from 4.5, does that mean that the spacer bar will automatically result in a straight away from 1.5? Just seems there must be a better way to do this than eyeballing targets.
     
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