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Pat trap problem ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bird Grinder, Nov 8, 2009.

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  1. Bird Grinder

    Bird Grinder Member

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    Our club has a G series Pat trap. Sometimes we get a bad right coming out of the trap(1 out of 300). I think I caught the elevator sticking today. The target like dropped and slide down where the right doubles target should be. Has anybody out there ever put a heaver or two springs on the elevator? The targets have small chips that come off of them that I think could be getting down around the elevator and making it stick. The targets are all orange White Flyers. Anyone else have problems with the elevator? I replaced the spring today but have not thrown many targets to find out if it has made a difference. The elevator doesn't look like there is any build up on the guides to make it stick. Also where should the target stack be in relationship to the rollers when it stops indexing? I'm thinking that there might be a timing problem also, target dropping to soon or late.
  2. 320090T

    320090T Active Member

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    If it goes past the limit switch, it won't come back by itself. If it was the brush, it would do it all the time. The elevator is prpbably the culprit. One of ours did it brand new, Charley tried to tell me he tests every machine, he lies. Anyhow, file the edges of the elevator, chances are you have a burr somewhere. Look at the plastic insert, it might be cut or burred from target chips. Good luck.
  3. Bird Grinder

    Bird Grinder Member

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    I've replaced the brush and the switches are working ok. I was in the trap house watching the trap when I saw it happen. The target slide down to where the right hand doubles target should be, when the arm pushed it over it was below the target brush. Looked like the elevator didn't come all the way up to catch the target.
  4. higun

    higun Member

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    BG

    Sounds like a timing problem to me. There is a micro-switch under the carousel that is activated by the cam. Get the manual out and adjust this switch to spec.

    For real help you should email Vince at traprox@aol.com He is the best!
  5. hoov

    hoov Member

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    Bird Grinder;
    My best guess is that your trap is out of time.
    The only reason you don't see it often is because the only time it is a wild right is when your trap has occilated to the right,otherwise it will throw normal targets,at least you think they are normal.
    What happens is when the target is dropped onto the elevator tray it scoots away from the arm and becomes a hard right, this will only happen if the trap is angled to the right ,and wants to throw a right bird.
    Set in your house, and observe.The elevator should come up and pick up the bird,the bird should not drop onto the elivator with a clicking sound.

    My $02 It works for me
  6. dhull

    dhull TS Member

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    Hoov has it right. We had one doing this exact same thing, re-timed the turret and have not had an outlaw since.

    Dave
  7. higun

    higun Member

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    BG

    Have you recently done anything involving the rubber springs? If the split collar on the cocking side has not been properly spaced it will affect timing.
  8. Bird Grinder

    Bird Grinder Member

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    Still has the original rubber bands, counter has 350,000 on it and bands seem to be still in good shape. I'll call Pat Trap tomorrow. Thanks all.
  9. PatMan

    PatMan TS Member

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    Sounds like you have an intermetent binding elevator.. The best way to check for it is when you are in the traphouse, throw a target, and instantly after you throw it, turn the power off on the motor. The throwing arm will be in the relaxed position, and the elevator in the up position.. You can now by hand push the elevator down and let it come back to the spring loaded up position, and observe for any binding as you let it come up slowly. Binding is usually caused from target pitch built up on the elevator. If you suspect timing, observe the target as the elevator receives it.. If properly timed, you will see the elevator receive the target just as the elevator is in the up position and not on it's downward travel. You will also hear a noticeable clank as the target drops on the elevator if the machine is out of time and the elevator is on it's downward travel before the target drops. Replacing the elevator springs will not fix your problem.. Wayne
  10. X Trap 2

    X Trap 2 TS Member

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    Ours got out of time due to a right angle frame weld that had cracked at the bottom. The frame weld joint had been tacked, and was never welded completely, causing the weld to fail and let the machine get out of time. I got real good at timing the machine until I discovered the problem, and that took a while. I drilled a 3/8" hole and bolted it together. Ray
  11. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    You are out of time, I just went through the same thing. Sounds like you need to adjust the elevator as well. Sometimes its just target dust on the edge of the elevator that can be cleaned off. There should be about a 1/16th of an inch between the elevator and the guides on both sides.
    Under the lower plate is a #35 chain on 2 sprockets,disconnect the chain and reset the cam to factory specs.
    Once your timed,(no micro switch on a G) use a white marker and mark a tooth on the small sprocket and the shaft. This sprocket is just pressed on. If it creeps out of time again.drill through the collar on the small sprocket and shaft (1/8") and pin it.
    This is what the factory had me do. I have marked the sprockets on 2 G's but no creepage so far. Im told some do and some don't creep.

    Good Luck

    Dennis
  12. 320090T

    320090T Active Member

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    If it is out of time wouldn't it throw erratic rights all the time?
  13. Marco Polo

    Marco Polo TS Member

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    Kingbang is probably right. When the machine get out of time, the elevator drops the bird OUT OF TIME and it SOMETIMES misses the plastic piece that holds the single bird in place. When it is not against the plastic triangle the bird SOMETIMES jumps over the plastic piece and throws a screaming right like the right bird of doubles. The worse that the timing problem gets the more hard rights and broken birds.

    IF you watch the machine (from the side of the elevator) cycle for a while, you will eventually see the bird jump the plastic triangle and end up a hard/screaming right. This starts out as an occasional problem and the more it slips the worse it gets. IT NEVER GETS BETTER !!!

    Call Pat Trap and ask them to fax you the procedure to reset the chain which will then time the elevator properly.
  14. shotgnrox

    shotgnrox TS Member

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    hello my name is vince I can help with your problem give me a call 813-277-6543
  15. Bird Grinder

    Bird Grinder Member

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    Found the problem, build up of target residue on the elevator. Cleaned it off and no more bad rights.
    Thanks for the information.
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