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Pat Ireland Herb Orr Chokes

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by tburrey, Dec 25, 2007.

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  1. tburrey

    tburrey Member

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    Pat you mentioned that Herb Orr used a dime for checking after drilling out chokes. Did the dime go through the barrel? Did he ever mention what the check measured? Just wondered. Thanks. Tom
     
  2. k80jim

    k80jim Member

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    I had a Herb Orr Model 12 Trap that I wish I still had. I can tell you that a dime would not go inside the barrel. I was told if a dime would not go it was a full choke. If a dime went in but was snug or close it was Imp. Mod. Now that was then and this is now. It would depend on the I.D. on the barrel. I think the old time shooters walking the gun shows would keep a dime in their pocket to check if someone had opened up the choke from stock. Jim
     
  3. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    I have to dispute this. I had one of Herb's chokes in a Perazzi Comp 1. A dime went in easily. I was told that was typical of his chokes because they were opened up more several inches behind the end of the barrel, and then opened to a lesser degree at the end of the barrel -sort of a jug choke effect. It had a very even pattern that was Improved Modified as I recall.
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    dickgtax, Herb Orr didn't "jug-choke" all the barrels he re-worked the chokes on. The ones I've seen that were jug choked by Herb all shot good. He was a very interesting fellow to chat with too! Hap
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Herb Orr was the first who got into the custom choke business and we owe him a lot for this. He specialized in reworking the typically tight M 12 barrels. A dime was not a bad tool to use to identify a full choke (dime less than half way in the end of the barrel), an IM choke (dime half way in and snug) or a modified choke (dime will fall in).

    Stan Baker came along and he was the first to look at the "science" of barrel constrictions. Stan also made the first interchangeable chokes. We rarely see the expanded end of the Baker chokes any more.

    Daniel Perazzi paid close attention to the work of these men and he made some of the first factory barrel configurations that were specialized for us. Now, some excellent custom barrel workers have evolved from this early work.

    Herb Orr did make some fine custom chokes. Unfortunately, he also made some mistakes that had barrels shooting way to the right or left. The small white frame building (ca 8 X 12) in the alley between the ATA office and the cafeteria at Vandalia was his Grand workshop.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Pat: What does a stamped Orr barrel do to the value of a Mod.12 if anything?

    Don
     
  7. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    I watched him ruin (in my opinion) many a barrel in the little white building at the Grand. Clamp the barrel in his vice and ream out the choke. No measuring and no shooting. Used the same reamer no matter what the barrels bore was.
     
  8. Oldman1949

    Oldman1949 Banned User Banned

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    I have 3 Md. 12's that Orr choked . None are marked or stamped as such , but I did watch him "ream" them and pay for them when he finished . A dime will pass thru the bbls without ever hitting metal . Not one of them will smoke a target from the 16 . But they will all break targets with the same amount of authority from the 27 as they will from the 16 . No ink balls , just 15 to 20 peices , if I do my part .
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I sent a TM-1 to Herb Orre for his "Super-16" choke and to correct its POI problem, shooting about 3 inches to the right at 13 yards.

    When it came back, it shot in the same (wrong) place. I called him and he said it couldn't. I wonder who's shooting that collectable Orr-stamped barrel now . . .

    Neil
     
  10. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Almost 30 yrs ago, one of my gunmithing instructors explained the Orr choke to us. He was a trapshooter and a friend of Herb.

    He told us it was quite simple. Herb would open the choke with an adjustable blade reamer. Doing this in a full choked bbl would leave a fairly long parallel area at the choke...longer than an inch. He felt this didn't help the pattern at all. So his second step would to go from the muzzle end with a standard tapered reamer and reamer from the muzzle until the parallel was 3/4" -1". Then he would polish.

    Now almost 30 yrs later, and having measured many bbl's, those bbl's thought to have been "Orr choked" or were even marked as such, do have that "flair" at the muzzle.

    Remind you....this was only what I had been told.

    Doug Braker
     
  11. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

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    Neil the guy that got that barrel probably is one of those who starts the "Trouble With Left Angles" thread on here.

    Pay your money, take your chances, at the little building by the cafeteria. If I am not mistaken wasn't Jessie Edwards (Recoil Reducer) always hanging around back there with Herb?
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Don- To me, and only me, a M12 stamped Herb Orr would have more value than one that was factory original. The increased value would be historical and not functional. Herb Orr does deserve credit for initiating our interest in custom chokes even if he did not always do the best possible work.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. pj 999

    pj 999 TS Member

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    My Citori and Model 12 are both stamped H.G. ORRE. You can not get a dime in top barrel of Citori or in Model 12. Both guns have a great patterns and will break targets back as far as you want to shoot. Herb was a very interesting gentleman and was highly respected in this area. Perhaps some may consider his methods primitive but you need to think the other way when you consider the era and age he started to work on guns. Paul Baker Jr.
     
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