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Parker GHE Skeet VERIFIED

Discussion in 'For Sale- Members only' started by gastrap, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. gastrap

    gastrap TS Member

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    My heartiest thanks to all you Parker experts on this forum for the kick in the ass that forced me to better research this gun. I just got off the phone with the DelGregos, remember them? The father and Grandfather worked at Parker gun works.
    They verified my gun truly is an early Skeet gun. The checkering pattern is correct, the skeet in and skeet out stamps are correct and what appears to be a non-standard forend is in fact proper for a 20's skeet gun. It was known as the BIG beaver tail forend. It is identified by the thickness at the rear by the forend iron. The later ones curved inward instead of outward like this one.
    I would really appreciate it if the expert who said George Halas was an avid skeet shooter would repost it for all to see. It could well be true. Obviously you don't know.
     
  2. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    If you want the production records of your gun, from the time the order was placed until it was shipped and anytime it was back to the factory afterward, Parker historian Chuck Bishop can provide the info. Go to the Parker Gun Collector's Association site and you'll find a link to use to request the letter.

    I wish we could post scans and photos other than .jpegs here as the pages from those books from the 1800s are remarkable.

    Ed
     
  3. esetter

    esetter Active Member

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    Where is the listing for your skeet gun?
     
  4. benedict1

    benedict1 TS Member

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    The Parker Collectors web site list of serial numbers verifies 1923 make. However, the barrels could have been altered at a later date at the factory; not likely, but possible.

    The clues on the beavertail can be resolved at this link:

    http://www.parkerguns.org/pages/faq/BeaverTail.html

    Parker had to redesign the forend attachment to the barrels by reinforcing it and making it larger so the bigger forend would not shoot loose. This link describes process and shows pictures.

    I have seen many Parkers with non-original beavertails and owned one gun with a factory beavertail. The factory beavertail was different. I also had Larry Del Grego Jr. build a beavertail for a gun during the 1980s and he did modify the forend attachement at the barrels. It was hard to tell it from a factory job. Larry was a master at this work, of course.

    Don't know if this helps or just makes things foggier but the only sure way on a gun like this is to have somebody who really knows examine it. This may well be the real deal and I hope it is. Nice Parkers like this one are hard to find.

    I don't know if I'm repeating all this from other posts so I apologize if this is old news.
     
  5. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    When the boys on the Parker site verify it is when it will be verified. A copy of anything can be done now days. Factory records will tell the tale. jmho :) Bill
     
  6. boomer

    boomer TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I don't believe there is any mystery about this gun at all. The gun was originally made in 1923. It had 28 inch barrels as I recall from the serialization book. This was before skeet was even dreamed about. The gun is a Del Grego restoration and re-do into a very nice GHE Skeet style gun. I've owned many Parkers over the last 45 years and some of those were Del Grego reworks. At one time. long ago, they had an ample supply of parts, including barrels. They would fit new barrels, re do the wood, convert pistol grip guns to straight grip, renumber the parts so they all matched etc. There are lots of B, A and A-1 Specials out there that started life as a V grade and were skillfully upgraded in the Del Grego shop. Del Grego guns have their own area of collectibility for many Parker fans.

    This Parker, which has caused many comments, was a nice number 1 frame G Grade that received the Del Grego skeet conversion--barrels, forend etc. The market will determine the value. I suspect at a good auction this gun would bring 4-5K, including the buyers premium. All of this is just my opinion based on years of observations.
     
  7. Flatsboat

    Flatsboat TS Member

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    Boomer, thanks for setting the records straight. If anyone would know about these guns you sure are the person.
     
  8. gastrap

    gastrap TS Member

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    Well, I guess you guys are pretty much saying even the DelGregos don't know what they're talking about. I sent them pictures of the front of the barrels and the flats and he said they were original length and the weight was correct for number 1 frame 12 ga 26 in barrels. You may call them on this gun if you wish, they were kind enough to say they would answer any questions on this gun. 1-315-894-8754.
     
  9. boomer

    boomer TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    OK--one last comment. Understand I'm not trying to upset or offend anyone! The records show the gun left the factory as a 28 inch GHE with double triggers. If the serialization book is correct--the gun was a capped pistol grip--28 inch GHE with double triggers and a splinter forend. A factory letter might add additional details and it would be well worth the $40 if a PGCA member was contemplating the gun. A $100 non-member letter--maybe not. Whether the Del Gregos worked on the gun or not--the current configuration strongly suggests that the gun was changed along the way by someone! I'm sure the barrels are original skeet barrels. The beavertail appears totally correct. Every 12ga skeet gun I ever saw was on a 1 1/2 frame. This gun is a lightweight 12 bore built in 1923 on a number 1 frame.
    Again--let me emphasize--this is a very nice gun and would be a terrific clays or bird gun. I really like the looks of the gun. I hope it finds a happy home and I'm sure whoever gets it will be pleased and well served. BD
     
  10. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Go to the above thread for pictures.
     
  11. 1steve7301

    1steve7301 Member

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    If this gun was made in 1923, it was not originally a skeet gun. And if indeed it were an original GHE Parker Skeet Gun the owner better get it to an auction house to sell it, for it is worth a lot of money for only 46 GHE Parker Skeet Guns were ever made. But......................

    According to The Parker Story, Volume I, page 411 on Parker Skeet Guns.

    “While a scan of the database started with guns made in 1926, no gun with a skeet configuration was found before serial #232262, made in 1929”.

    A further reading of this chapter clearly indicates that Parker Skeet Guns as such, were produced between 1929 and 1942, with a total of just 46 GHE Skeet Guns ever made. Furthermore, the earliest that the chokes were marked on the barrel flats was in 1937. Another feature of a Parker Skeet Gun is that they had single triggers, and this gun still has the original double triggers. If this gun was indeed one of the 46 GHE Parker Skeet Guns ever produced, the price would be through the roof. I would hate to think what such a gun would bring at auction if original.

    So BOOMER is absolutely correct. This gun was upgraded to a skeet configuration. Does not mean that it is not a great gun, just not one of the original 46 GHE Skeet guns produced, and thus it’s value will be dictated by this.

    But a letter should be ordered on this gun. If it showed a Parker Factory Ugrade to this gun to a Skeet configuration, minus the single trigger, that would help the value a great deal.
     
  12. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Gastrap, membership in the PGCA is $40 and a letter costs a member $40, so maybe it is worth $80 to know for dead-nuts sure?

    Chuck Bishop is a close friend of mine and all those records are just a few miles away from me. I was looking through them for an article in Shotgun Sports Magazine just a few months ago.

    Ed
     
  13. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    The barrels are probably not replaced, just stamped with the Skeet In and Skeet Out marks, more likely at Del Gregos than at Remington or Parker. Del Grego used those stamps on skeet gun conversions. They did many of them over the years. The case colors on this gun look like Del Grego's colors also. The 1937 start of choke marking does not pertain to the skeet choke markings. They started earlier. A 28" double trigger skeet gun would be an incredible rarity, but, of course we know this isn't an original Parker skeet. The pictures in the original for sale thread were shaded where the Remington repair code would be stamped. A better picture of the barrel flat would tell whether the gun went to Remington for any repairs. If the Del Gregos inspected this gun in person, I believe they would recognize it as one of their conversions.
     
  14. 1steve7301

    1steve7301 Member

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    So was 1932 the earliest that guns were marked skeet in/skeet out?
     
  15. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    And as Paul Harvey would say and there my friends you have the rest of the story. As for me I'll take eightbore's take on it. :)
     
  16. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Steve, that is probably about right for the skeet in and out markings. I would have to refer to the book. In my opinion, Del Grego didn't have all the facts when he made the alleged statement about the gun. Maybe they are embarrassed to have done all those skeet conversions, but for no real reason. It is common knowledge that they did the conversions and no one is critical of them for doing them. Is this a 26" gun or a 28" gun. Somehow I concluded that it is 28".
     
  17. 1steve7301

    1steve7301 Member

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    Bill, it is 28". When I was researching the book on this gun I took the 1937 date from the statement on Page 411 when referring to skeet guns that, “Chokes are marked on the barrel flats of guns made after about 1937” with a picture of one of Allan’s guns to illustrate. But on page 410, the book talks about a 1932 advertising folder which outlined the skeet gun’s characteristics, including the skeet in/skeet out chokes, but it does not talk about those choke markings being on the barrels, so I was a little confused on that point. I agree that they should not try had hide the fact of the conversions. This looks like a very nice gun and for the right price I would like to own it.
     
  18. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    On the PGCA site, I was told it was 26". I guess it doesn't matter, except that if it is 26", we are probably dealing with a cut gun. Yes, the later date refers to field chokes, not skeet chokes.
     
  19. 1steve7301

    1steve7301 Member

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    Thanks Bill. I guess I missed this discussion on the Parker Site.
     
  20. jsa3107

    jsa3107 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Eight bore
    The gun isnt cut
    Please make sure of your facts before you post
    You have been all over the map on this gun
    take the time to research your facts before you post....
     
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