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Pa. Deer Hunters, Attention!!!!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by joshif, Sep 28, 2007.

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  1. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    Try this.
     
  2. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    I watched it live Thurs. night and it's good. Learn about the future of Deer hunting in Pa.Make your own opinions, I have mine....Rip-Off!
     
  3. rick resko

    rick resko TS Member

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    i watched this dog and pony show a couple of weeks ago. game comission members will be on hand to " answer questions". remember this, they are politicians first and foremost. i listened to the questions and the answers. the comissioners are experts at circumventing the issues. at no time did they give a straight forward answer.remember dr. gary ault? the comission used him to slaughter the deer herd and promptly threw him under the bus. had they allowed him to manage the deer program the way he managed the bear herd we here in penna would be much better off. think about this, with all tha "special" seasons here in penna the deer herd gets 2 months to rest. damn its not good to get this angry at 6:30 am. have a good day. rick
     
  4. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    rick resko - So what happened to dr. gary ault?
     
  5. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    My projections as a personal investment adviser based on my experiences in the personal wealth management and investment markets:

    Hunting in most of the northeast states has only a limited future. As the boomer generation becomes too old to actively hunt and becomes much less politically active in it, most of these states will see the gradual collapse of any hunting industry they now have along with the satellite industries it supports. The reduction in the number of hunting supporters will dry up the contributed funding that now supports game land acquisition/maintenance to levels where it will be inadequate to maintain even what is currently available. The reduction in contributed funding will spin off into a corresponding reduction in State support for the political mechanisms that regulate and support hunting in State government. Pressure for real estate development and ongoing environmental crises/concerns will become more important to the general population and the amount of private land unavailable to hunting will increase significantly.

    Morgan
     
  6. Bob M

    Bob M Member

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    twstrode,

    His reward for doing a great job with the black bear population in our state was to be put in charge of deer management. He did his studies and made his recommendations and the state implemented SOME aspects of his plan. The average hunter seemed to enjoy the increased number of tags available and we ate a bunch of venison for a few years. The deer numbers in the areas where guys were killing 3 or 4 deer a year where there was easy public access fell off the table. The unchecked numbers on private land remained and still remain unchecked.


    The deer on public land are pretty scarce unless you are willing to go way back off the roads. People don't seem to realize that the goal of the programs were to reduce the deer numbers. They shot deer where they always hunted and saw fewer and fewer deer. The same guys who were filling 3 or 4 tags legally and occasionally 'recycling' the tags were the first to start complaining about Dr. Alt. DUH!!!! He didn't kill the deer off, the hunters did.


    One friend of mine allows hunters on his 1000ish acre farm by invitation only. He was furious. 'Last year on the farm, we killed 21 deer, our best year ever. This year, we only took 4. It is terrible what the Game Commission and Gary Alt have done to the deer herd.'


    Dr. Alt got the blame for the results of how the GC allowed parts of his management plan to be implemented. He had to wear body armor and have two GC officers with him when he went out in public. He received death threats and threats against his family while not pointing out the truth about what was going on. Eventually it got to be more than he could handle and he retired.


    Here is a summary article about it.
    http://magazine.audubon.org/incite/incite0507.html
     
  7. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    No-one on the show mentioned the Insurance Companys role in the reduced herd. I don't want anyone to get hurt hitting a deer but fences could help the accident rate.They have 10ft high fences around areas in Elk and Cameron Co., I saw them. These were the ones mentioned in the show to keep deer out and see how much difference the fence made in plant and tree production.Fences like that could be put along busy roads to keep the deer off.Expensiveyes,but better than billions lost in hunting related sales because of low deer populations.imho
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Deer- Def. Bumper ornaments, Rabbits with antlers, guilty of mesmerizing some individuals into temporary insanity and more important to some than the health and welfare of humans!!
     
  9. Travioli

    Travioli TS Member

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    I attended a seminar at East Stroudsburg University (I am a grad student) and Dr. Alt did a 2.5 hour presentation and it was a very good presentation. He lives in Calif now. he did take a lot of heat for doing something good for deer hunters. My camp had been dooing antler restriction since 1988 with good results.....maybe they (GC) needs to focus on the PA transplants to help get deer away from developments.

    Travis
     
  10. Bob M

    Bob M Member

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    Two points concerning the deer situation here in PA:

    One program we have is called DMAP, for Deer Management Assistance Program. They hand out extra doe tags where there is too high a concentration within one WMA, Wildlife Management Area. Most DMAP tags are issued for state forest areas. I got one last year at the local Forestry office and asked about the deer damage areas. I was told that the tags were issued where there is going to be a timber sale. This is not because there are too many deer in that location. The secretary at the Forestry office explained is so that if there are deer there, Forestry wants them cleaned out so the new growth can come in after the loggers are done and the deer don't eat the new growth. Thee deer densities are not that high on the properties, but there are extra tags available.

    The roadside slaughter has already started. One was hit not 1/4 mile up the road from my house in a predominantly residential area with a small truck farm nearby. Hunting is not permitted on the farm. I was out with the family tonight for a birthday party. On the way home, I almost got 6 that ran in front of the car. It was in farmland where the owner does not permit hunters on his property. In both of these cases, the deer are there, but you are not permitted to hunt them. I am in the south-central part of the state, but the big numbers of deer in the Philly and Pittsburgh areas face the same access problem.

    Between Forestry, the insurance companies, and the politicians, we are in a sorry state of affairs in some ways. Dr. Alt tried to speak for the good of the resource, and was censured. We will have to wait and see I guess.
     
  11. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    I have an answer Antique, Buy the doe tag, tear it up and send in the report card. That deer will be alive, the commission has their kill report for the Insurance Co. and WE have a doe to breed to make more deer.Think about it, in 1 year we can double the herd. 1 buck+1 doe=2 fawns,at least one. 3-4 deer. Multiply that by 5 years and thousands of does and we're in business.They can increase all the allocations they want. If we don't whack the doe we have bucks to hunt and deer to keep the kids alert and excited.Let them whack their first Doe then Bucks only after that.Plus the commission has the money from the tags. Win,Win. All it costs is $6.00 a person.
     
  12. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    Damn people,,,,you shot out your own ground!!!!

    Now you want to fix it?????? Then stop all gun hunting for at least 3 years,,and allow archery only hunting!!!

    Now you know why it only took a short span of years to completly obliterate a herd of 60 million buffalo!!!!

    Hunting deer with a scoped rifle takes about as much "hunting skill" as climbing out of bed!!!! Its not hunting at all,,,its just killing!!! And your deer herd reflects that....

    A deer herd can bounce back very quickly,,,,if you let it!!! If "money" gets in the way of sound game management,,then your annual pilgrimage into the field will soon be a thing of the past!!!!

    Grandpa-----whats a deer????

    AKA Grammie.........
     
  13. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    You're right Grammie.
     
  14. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    dont know about PA but in WV there are 5 + times more killed on the highway than by hunters. i drive 70mi to work on a 2 lane road there is at LEAST 5 every day and thats what you see on the road. someone said they see more deer around where land owners dont let you hunt. here is the reason, i have 200+ac i have let people hunt in the past. this is WHY i dont let people [hunt]. had fences cut,had a calf shot,2 tires on a hay wagon shot,gates left open, and here is the MAIN reason. i let 2 guys hunt, next week one guy brings someone else, next week that guy brings someone, by the 4th weekend i had 10 people i never met. that is WHY nobody want to let [hunters] in i use the word [hunter] because that is what they like to be called. i have other names rick in WV
     
  15. Bob M

    Bob M Member

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    27M-12,

    Guys are starting to do that with the tags.

    ricks1

    I understand why people don't want hunters on their land because of past incidents and damage. I'll definitely agree with the 'I allowed two guys to hunt and then they told two more and so on...' thing. It is a lack of respect for the landowner and the privilege of hunting. I have stopped telling some of my friends about new spots for this reason. I also make sure the landowner gets some fresh backstrap or pepper sticks when they get back from the processor.
     
  16. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    Deer, deer, deer. All anyone cares about are deer. Well, there isn't any shortage of them in NW PA. We may not being seeing many bucks, but take a 20 or 30 minute drive at night on back roads (and a lot of main ones) in Erie or Crawford county, and you're going to see some deer, and it's a good chance that one is going to run out in front of your car.

    What about wild pheasant not being around anymore, and the game commission cutting in half the number they raise and release? Good luck finding grouse or quail. You'll see plenty of bunnies in the summer, but they dissappear by fall. At least bear numbers on are on the rise.

    About all our state has is deer, turkey and waterfowling. Oh, and groundhogs and coyotes.

    ~Michael
     
  17. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    If you caught the program I linked someone said 70-80% of licenses sold in Pa. are bought for deer hunting. The same guy said he did not buy and maintain a hunting camp far from home for squirrels and bear.Deer hunting in Pa. is a 5-6 Billion $ Industry. How much money comes from Pheasant,Grouse or Quail.Far less. The MAJORITY should be addressed NOT the MINORITY! I like bird hunting, I love to shoot at Canada Geese and Ducks in the Pymatuning area.I used to shoot at Grouse and Pheasant. I won't buy a camp just to do that though. I would have more hunting and fishing opportunities for ME in Potter or Cameron Co. than Crawford. Forget Erie with the jerks standing shoulder-shoulder in the creeks catching steelhead. I go out to get AWAY from people, not smell their cologne and snag their lines while I fish! Plus Deer Camp is more than a kill. It's the comradery,card games, food, drink, Hunting is an option. You won't get that anywhere else.Except Trout season in the same camp.Or Turkey, or Bear,or work party,etc. Never saw that for small birds.That show is coming up again this Friday at 9am I think. Go on the PCN website and lookit up. Tape it if you must. It's really interesting. It talks about much of the same as we are here. Bob M. I know a few are doing it but I doesn't hurt to spread it around. Thanks
     
  18. pdq

    pdq Member

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    PA is a big state, and not all comments apply state-wide.

    I live about 20 miles west of Philadelphia. We are over-run with deer. Why? For starters, a local conservation group has worked for 20 years to put open land immediately around me into permanent conservancy so that it can never be developed. At last count, they had secured over 5,000 acres -- great effort by them.

    Immediately in back of my house is dense mature woodland. On the far side of that is open conservation fields for grazing. In the middle of the wooded area, a creek runs through. So, food, water and dense woodland for shelter and other types of food -- perfect habitat for breeding. We see more deer than squirrels. I recently arranged for archers to hunt our property. I told 1 to forget building a tree stand -- he could sit in a recliner chair on our back deck which is 15' off the ground. I'd run an extension cable outside to power a heating pad for his back, plus the Mr. Coffee machine next to him.

    Drive about 20 minutes away and go thru Valley Forge National Park at dusk. Groups of 5 - 25 deer grazing right next to the roads, oblivious to the cars going by. 3,000 acres of rolling fields, wooded areas, and water supply. It gets so over populated that I understand they've recently started controlled hunts.

    Anyone who wants to adopt a few hundred deer just need to drive thru that Park & transport them home. So many at 1 time you can't count them.

    Pete
     
  19. Bob M

    Bob M Member

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    PDQ,

    Sounds like a great offer to the archers. How about gunhunters? I can help you with that deer problem and there will be peppersticks in it for you!
     
  20. pdq

    pdq Member

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    Unfortunately, we don't allow use of firearms in our community, but really not needed. Overall our community is about 75 acres, with about 35 - 40 of that in mature woodland, so rifles don't give much advantage as the wooded area is so thick that shots beyond 30 - 40 yards aren't realistic.

    And, as stated, a lot of deer. From our 40 acres of woods, I'd anticipate them taking 11 - 12 deer this season. They've already taken a couple, and the president of the archery club called the other day saying he had an entire backstrap with my name on it, wondering how I wanted it butchered. I hadn't expected to get any venison -- they are good guys.

    Pete
     
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