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P38 Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Trappy12, Jul 23, 2010.

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  1. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    My cousin's grandfather fought under Patton in WWII, and the story I hear from my cousin is that he brought back a Luger from the war. Since he knows nothing about guns he asked me to take a look at it. As it turns out it was, as I expected, not a Luger but a P38. What throws me is that the gun is nickel plated. I'm pretty sure that they did not make those during the war, but I'm no expert so I'd love to find out if it was in fact possibly a gun from the war and if not when a gun like that may have possibly been made.
    Thanks a lot,
    -Trappy
     
  2. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Anything is possible but most likely he had it nickle plated after the war- or chrome plated

    Gene
     
  3. sle081

    sle081 Member

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    Best to do for more information is post a set of photos on the gun so that the proofs and other markings can be read.Or at put on a posting what the information is on the slide on both sides and the frame. I have seem some examples of guns that were picked during the war and then having them plated during the ocupation. Some outfits were making a small industry in Europe after the war ended doing custom work on guns the GI's had as they were about the only ones with money to spend. I have seen several plated, engraved, and other custom features that were applied to military guns by local shops after the war ended.
    David
     
  4. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Trappy,

    Click on the link above. Lots of info on the P-38 including how to decipher the serial number (as to manufacturer, etc.).

    Chichay
     
  5. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Alright well I went to take a look at it today. It's not nickel plated as I thought, the camera's flash made it look nickel plated on the picture. I field stripped it and everything looks great. The action is nice and smooth, firing pin looks good, barrel is shiny and rifling is defined and etc. The only issue is the magazine catch snapped off at the base of the hand grip. Is this something I'd be able to replace myself with good internet diagrams and directions or do I definitely need a gunsmith to do it?
    He also had a german short sword or dagger (About an 8" blade) that has "Blood and Honor!" written in German on one size, and the other has and RZM logo. (I'll post a picture later) It also has the hilt decorated with the Nazi eagle and swastika.
    The story as my cousin told me was that he and his unit (I think he said something about the 89th under Patton) walked into a town and he found both the pistol and dagger on the same body.
    -Trappy
     
  6. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

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    Trappy12 the edged weapon you have is a Hitler youth knife. Not all Hitler youth knifes had the HJ motto on blade. Post full length photo of both sides of knife and I can tell you who made it as well as if it is real or post war. Also post pictures of scabbard. 28 years collecting Nazi daggers.
     
  7. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

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    The Nazis didn't waste time nickel-plating combat arms. Some P38s are collectible; most are worth around $350-$450.
     
  8. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Whiz, I'll try and get those up tomorrow.
    smoking, that's what I figured. Luckily, it is not nickel plated. Built in March of 1944 at the Mauser factory.
    -Trappy
     
  9. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Here are the pictures of the knife, unfortunately my camera sucks...
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img43.imageshack.us/i/dscf0226xh.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>

    Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img168.imageshack.us/i/dscf0227r.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>

    Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img821.imageshack.us/i/dscf0227j.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>

    Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img180.imageshack.us/i/dscf0230.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>

    Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img341.imageshack.us/i/dscf0231f.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>

    Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>
    -Trappy
     
  10. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I cant help you much with those photos but here is a little help
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    Thank you.
    -Trappy
     
  12. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

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    Trappy12 The dagger is a Hitler youth leader. The HJ leader is a very rare dagger and is very desirable to collectors of Nazi edged weapons. These daggers were only worn with dress uniforms and never combat. There was basically one manufacture of the HJ leader dagger. That being the firm of E.& F. Horster Solingen RZM M7/36. That is how your blade should be marked. Any other marking should be viewed as suspect. How ever the Eickhorn firm did produce some and the blade was marked Eickhorn with no RZM. Before I sold my collection I had both.

    The HJ dagger is a highly reproduced dagger and has fooled many collectors. Many daggers brought home by GI's were being put together from left over parts by factory workers after the war and sold as souvenirs and lets say not totally correct.

    The pictures you posted are not real clear. But from what I can see and I would like a close up shot of the RZM mark it looks good. It seems difficult to find this dagger in mint condition as the silver fittings seem to flake. Now DO NOT try in any way to clean this dagger. I have seen many daggers have the value cleaned away.

    Were there any leather hangers with the dagger?

    Just got back from the Iowa state shoot and will check back latter.
     
  13. jimsw

    jimsw Member

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    Whiz-bang is correct that is a Hitler Youth Leader dagger. They are very rare. Yours looks 100%. Don't clean it or polish it in any way. A light coat of oil on the blade is OK. The wire wrapping on the grip looks good, it is often damaged.

    I collected Nazi daggers many years ago but sold my collection. I never found a decent HJ Leader dagger. I had a collection of 40-50 nice originals. Some collector will pay a hefty price for that dagger.
     
  14. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    whiz, I'll see if I can go take some more pictures and get them up tonight. They did not have any leather hangers, but I will ask about them. Is it possible that he just took the knife and scabbard off the body and left the leather hanger?
    jim, how much would some collector pay for it?
    -Trappy
     
  15. whiz-bang

    whiz-bang Active Member

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    When I sold my dagger collection 4 years ago I had a value at that time of 4 thousand on each HJ leader dagger I had. Since then I haven't been following the values. My daggers were in mint condition. Condition means a lot. If by chance the hangers are with the dagger you could probably add up to 2 thousand more if the condition is good.

    When I bought daggers from the vet that brought them back many times they told me they took them of a uniform hanging in a closet or locker and left the hangers on the uniform. Keep in mind these daggers were worn on special occasions not combat.

    When I sold my collection I had 56 daggers and was lucky enough to have some of the rarest and most desirable daggers in my collection. And even more to meet and hear the stories from the vets that brought them back. And that is priceless.

    Before I sold my collection I took pictures of most every dagger I had. If I figure out how to post pictures I will post them in the future.
     
  16. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    When I looked them up some were going for over $12,000. They are going to check to see if they may have the straps up there. Here are the best pictures I could get of the markings...
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img44.imageshack.us/i/dscf0232.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>
    <a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img825.imageshack.us/i/dscf0233.jpg/'>[​IMG]</a>

    Uploaded with <a target='_blank' href='http://imageshack.us'>ImageShack.us</a>

    -Trappy
     
  17. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    And another...
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should use less pix. & size of your camera's setting, and no flash. I had a hard time seeing the whole picture.
     
  19. Trappy12

    Trappy12 Active Member

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    This any better?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -Trappy
     
  20. jimsw

    jimsw Member

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    I don't doubt the $12,000 price. I told you those things are rare.

    Many years ago I started a Nazi dagger collection, (50 years ago in 1960), at the time I was in the Marine Corps and had a friend who introduced me to collecting daggers. We bought a number of items from an auction house in England by absentee bids and got some very nice original stuff.

    My friend came across a Hitler Youth Leader dagger and bought it for the then unbelievable sum of $45. We thought he had lost his mind. Knowing him he still has it and is probably smiling. That dagger has appreciated more than 260 times in 50 years. Not bad.
     
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