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P/W Primer Tray and Feed

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by paul7177, Nov 2, 2011.

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  1. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    I have a P/W Patriot and love the machine, it produces quality reloads. BUT the primers in the tray jam up constantly and do not fall into the feed rail no matter how I adjust the angle of the tray. The tapper they have added does not solve the issue.

    Does anyone else have these issues and is there a good solution? Thanks!
     
  2. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    Some primers are worse than others when it comes to feeding down the tray into the chute. Has to do with their flanges. No amount tray jacking helps much. For me the best movers are Winchester, then Federal and Remington. Euro primers (Rio & Cheddite) really need encouragement. CCI are the worst.

    Lube the tray and chute with silicone, case wax or woodworking machinery table lube every couple thousand rounds. Clean off the old stuff with lacquer thinner when relubing.

    I removed the left side half of the OEM baffles and replaced it with one of my own construction. Makes a big difference. <center>
    [​IMG]
    </center>

    Mike K
     
  3. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    I had the same issue with primer feeding, and I only use Winchester. I did find that keeping the tray super clean, and using One Shot to clean it and dry lube worked the best. I used spray on car detailer and other products, but they left a hint of residue that attracted dirt rapidly. The tapper and shaking were noble ideas, but fell way short of getting it done.

    Whiz White on this forum makes a vibrator unit (when demand warrants I suspect) that is similar to, if not better than Spolar. I suspect that would be the ultimate fix and then any primer should work fine. I would contact him, he is an advertiser on this site and see if he has any or plans to make more in the future.
     
  4. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Do they jam in the tray itself or against the mouth of the chute - stopping there and not dropping down while angling forward??

    If you look in the photo by Mkillan - see the brass washer?? Go straight down from there and you will see the right side of the chute, right at the point of the black plastic block - there is a small arm that sticks up and helps the primer to drop off the tray and change angles as it drops into the cute - identical one just to the left of this.

    These get out of alignement fairly easily - you might try 'tweaking' them a bit - in general they need to be pushed back slightly - closer to the tray.
     
  5. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    A vibrator is the only way to go. Take a hint from Spolar.

    PW said a vibrator was overkill on the Patriot, apparently not. They should also switch to a baffle like Mike has. The originals do NOT work.
     
  6. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    99% of the jams are in the tray itself, occasionally at the mouth of the chute. I use Winchester primers.
     
  7. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    My experience was the primers would arrange themselves in an arch pattern at the first gate on the primer tray. Everyone knows how an arch works. If the tray angle is too much the weight of the primers on the arch makes it worse. So, you reach up and bang the primer tray to disrupt the arch, over and over. With a vibrator, the arch never forms. Also, the tray cover cannot be touching the primers.
     
  8. skeezix

    skeezix Member

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    I was having problems with fio primers getting hung up at the transition from the tray to the track. They kept tipping over and jamming. I bent the right 'ear' of the track over backwards far enough to be below the tray cover. I have had no further issues. It's stainless and not very easy to bend. You can bend it backwards a little - but it interferes with the cover if you bend it too far - so I bent it far enough to be below the cover.

    I have not yet built an insert like the one pictured - but it is on my list of things to do!

    john
     
  9. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    A word of caution, boys. While you're bending/twisting/tapping you could be setting yourself up for BIG trouble. Here's the reason: Tray track feed alignment is very critical, and if you twist the tray enough it can twist the track and torque the primer feed mechanism causing it to stick in the down position and the the primer feed pin to be exposed in the up position and get bent, or worse, causing hate and discontent. Follow the other guy's advice about cleaning and primer selection; but listen to me about this.

    So, While you're doing your twisting/bending/cleaning/swearing; do it with the track disconnected from the primer feed assembly via the single Allen screw. Once you think the tray is where you want it, twist and bend the track so that it aligns exactly, with the slot and screw hole without putting any torque on the assembly. Otherwise, you'll be calling Whiz White for replacement primer seating pins or worse yet a rebuild for a bent/busted cormastan and flatterap assembly.....ask how I know....

    best....mike
     
  10. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    When I ship/sell a Patriot, the customer receive from me an After Sale Packet and one item in that packet is a small flexible plastic tube that replaced the "wave spring" under the primer tray.

    The factory and I have talked a couple of times about the primer tray as shipped with that wave soil spring it simply too flexible. I sent to them the flexible plastic tubing I suggested they use.

    Haven't seen that being utilized yet.

    I have also redesigned the feeding buffers that you see in the primer tray (two black plastic pieces). My buffer is a two-piece homogenuous design similar to the "S" curve on the Spolar. It's not for sale yet, as I have not had time to get it set up for production. It is a plastic piece (2-piece) that simply replaces the two black plastic buffers presently used, but the primers flow much, much more smoothly. I've not shared that one with the factory... well, I did send them a schematic of it, but no comments to date.


    [​IMG]


    This is kinda what I'm looking at. Not a big secret so maybe someone out there in shootland may want to set up to make some of there... remembering to undercut the bottom side enough to let the rim of the primer slide *under* the place.

    Whiz
     
  11. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    If someone, anyone, invents a shotgun primer feed system that works even 90 percent of the time they will be king of the world.
     
  12. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    Silverbulletexpress,

    I know many grow tired of hearing about the mighty Spolar, but the facts are the primer feed on my 2 units work 99.99999% of the time flawlessly. The other .00001% is sadly my own doing. It does require refilling the tray on a timely basis, or they fail to push properly into the feed bar.
     
  13. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    Has anyone found a tray vibrator that will work?
     
  14. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    Whiz...

    I tried a profile very similar to yours on my 900: the channel out of the main tray has parallel walls and a similar-size mouth. I found that it didn't work well at all without a vibrator or agitator of some sort to break up the traffic jams that routinely occur at the mouth of the upper channel. The gravity feed of the 900 just wouldn't do it.

    I recently modified the baffle in the photo I posted above by cutting off the upper edge at the line as shown. The increased angle helps the gravity feed and the shorter mouth almost eliminates traffic jams. This is a photo of how the modification was made.<center>
    [​IMG]
    </center>

    Mike K
     
  15. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Nice job.
     
  16. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    You still used the black right buffer and the runway is too wide.

    My prototype works flawlessly.

    I may have one vibrator left and I have enough parts to built 6-8, but it take so much time.

    WW
     
  17. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    <I>"You still used the black right buffer and the runway is too wide."</I><center>
    [​IMG]


    Obviously the runway is not any wider than the Spolar and there's no reason NOT to use the right side OEM baffle.<br>Extra length in the lower half of the runway only takes up room in the tray.<BR>The baffle I mentioned above and in this photo is NOT the one I was referring to as "similar to yours" in my post.<br><br><br><br>


    [​IMG]
    The one I'm referring to as not working without a vibrator is also based on the Spolar design (above).<BR>All my baffle designs use the same width runway as shown.<BR>If your diagram is anywhere near to scale, the tray it's mounted in will need an extension just to hold 100 primers. As shown, your baffle takes up too much tray space.</center><br><br>

    If I can find that baffle design in the trash I'll post a photo of it.

    Mike K
     
  18. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh I love my PW its like playing a instrument pull wad push empty click bing as the empty hits the deflector tap tap tap on the side of the primer tray every 10-15 shells music to my ears,
     
  19. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Ole One Eye: Thanks, had a chuckle on that one.

    Whiz
     
  20. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    I "had" all of these problems, I found the primers were moving to fast and jamming. I took a piece of 320 sandpaper pre-adhesive and covered all but about an inch by the feed ramp. It slowed them down just enough to keep them moving but not jamming against themselves. You need to use the preglued sandpaper as it can be laid flat on the tray. You may have to adjust the angle a bit and play with it to find the correct speed of motion. It works and it is cheep. You can buy the sandpaper at most auto-parts store.
     
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