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P/W 800 PLUS Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by volksbugusa, Jan 8, 2011.

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  1. volksbugusa

    volksbugusa TS Member

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    Maybe someone might have the answer
    my new 800 plus is such a bear when I push the handle upward to lock into place
    so that the wad arm swing's out. .If i dont put a little pressure on the handle then I will not have the turret indexed for the next rotation causing then all sorts of problems...Is this the way it should be...i have had my share of shot spills ect,ect.Should I hear a click on the upward lock of the handle...never feel like the handle was pushed enough..feels like its binding forcing me to put pressure on the handle it also never feels smooth on the upward stroke...could be just me...need someone to get me on track...Thanks Matt

    volksbugusa

    mdazzo@optonline.net
     
  2. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    I have the same model and yes, it does require a little more effort to move it to the stop position and to properly index. Go ahead, give it a little more muscle, it can take it and you'll get into the rhythm of it right away.
    You will know by the sound that it is all the way up.The resistance being offered is not the wad swing arm, it's all the other things going on at that time, quite normal. You aren't going to hurt the machine.
     
  3. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Sounds like either (1) Primer Seating Assy is set too high, (2) Shell Seating Post is too high, or (3) Index Pad is too high.

    I'd recommend checking these in the order shown above. Regarding the Index pad: this item is NOT something you should simply remove to raise/lower WITHOUT KNOWING what's all affected. Download my "Maintenance & Lubrication Instructions" at my above website BEFORE you make ANY adjustments to the Index Pad.

    WWhite
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I can think of a couple things that have caused me the same symptoms:<UL><LI>something badly out of adjustemnt... either the shell insertion post (station 1) or the primer seating assembly (or the post) (station 2); if either one is too high, the press feels as you describe
    <LI>trying to stuff euro primers into once-fired steel base American hulls
    <LI>trying to reload steel base hulls where the base has expanded from firing to something over .812-813"; a sleeve resizing die works fine on brass but not so fine sometimes on steel. This was a problem for me so now I resize all my steel base hulls to .806"-.807" with a MEC Supersizer before I reload them.
    <LI>pieces of pellets caught between the top of the shot bushing gear and the aluminum plate that carries the hoppers (if your carrier plate is aluminum)</UL>Most of these conditions won't apply if the press is hard to cycle all the time, not just when you're running hulls. A shot pellet caught under something (turret hold-down, wad carrier) can make the press hard to operate even without hulls in it.

    MK
     
  5. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    One thing I've noticed is if you tighten down the 4 screws that hold down the powder/shot bushing access plate to tight it makes the handle harder to move. I just keep mine snug and all is well. Regardless of any small adjustments you have to make the P/W is one of the best machines on the market.

    Bill
     
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"I keep the little caps over the powder bushing and shot bushing up just a tad"</I></blockquote>With an aluminum hopper mounting plate, that's one way to get some pieces of pellet between the bushing gear and the mounting plate.
     
  7. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    COMMENT: When you push the handle BACK to HOME, the Wad Carrier should SWING OUT, not in... Your initial thread kinda has me confused, because for the Wad Carrier to "swing in", you have to be pulling the handle towards you and down to the Stop Block. Is this correct?<BR>
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have a question: You mentione the word "new". Is this reloader EXACTLY as it came out of the box brand new from the factory?

    Reason I ask is that I find it hard to believe that it is not operating smoothly/easily as shipped from the factory.<BR>
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have found from past owners that they will take a brand new unit that, let's say for example's sake, came in as a new 12 gauge. They will then install a different toolhead and gauge. This involves installing a new appropriate gauge Shell Seating Post. If the new owner is not aware of or knowlegeable in what that post's height MUST be, (that is, incorrect too high or too low Shell Seating Post), the owner has just introduced a scenario similar to what you are experiencing. This condition will really cause the machine NOT to operate smoothly. Then the owner will start making additional adjustment, and then we are into a real "Fibonacci Effect" mess.

    This is when you change 3 adjustment, you have NO LESS than 6 possible combinations to return to "normal," (more when you lengthe/shorted things) and then make one more, a 4th, and you have 24 possibilities. This is why I tell my customers to call me and we'll talk about adjustments, and not "try" things.

    Most of the solutions I end up giving my customers actually are written in the reloader's manual.

    If I remember correctly, you initially had a bad experience buying an 800B from someone, and then you bought this 800 Plus through eBay. I remember an email or two regarding the eBay purchase. If that is/was the case, then you didn't get a brand new 800 Plus from the factory, but one from somone who'd already used it. THAT IS THE PROBLEM: Someone messed around with it before you got it. I guess that's kinda why I tried to sell you a brand new factory fresh unit. Doing so really helps to eliminate initial problems, especially if you've never operated one previously. As you learn to use the machine, you will eventually figure out how to maintain it. You are pretty mechanical from what I understand, so I assume you'll get it going in fine shape.

    Whiz
     
  8. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    volksbugusa,

    Here is a way to find out what is causing your high effort. First empty the loader of all shells. Then begin loading. Take care to note where you encounter the high effort. Is it when the hull is inserted on station 1? Is it when the primer is seated on station 2? If the high effort did not go away when the loader was empty then it could be the height of the index pad. Be sure to follow the manual if you decide to adjust the index pad height.

    Jim Skeel P/W Dealer
     
  9. rennerize

    rennerize Active Member

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    Matt there is some very good advice on here. I was going say the same thing that Whiz said in his first post. TRY THOSE firt.
    Don
     
  10. 25deadbirds

    25deadbirds TS Member

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    Something that had me baffled for quite some time with my 2000 was a similar feel. I tracked it down to the rubber washer under the powder hopper that feeds into the powder bushing. This rubber washer was being squeezed between the top plate and the rotary gear that holds the bushing. I loosened the two front thumb screws on the shot/powder top plate and this solved the problem but introduced too much powder migration with the 410 powder. There was no in-between that was acceptable.
    I should add - the problem existed with the factory plastic top plate so I switched to aluminum and it was the same. I tried a tiny amount of powdered graphite but it offered no help.
    My solution was to machine a Teflon washer and glue it in place. I reduced the binding by at least 50% with no additional problems. After 500 rounds it still feels exactly the same meaning I have no idea how long the Teflon washer will hold up.

    Dave
     
  11. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Dave,

    The powder seal needs to be bonded (glued) to the base to keep it from rolling out of the groove. P/W bonds the seal in their plastic and aluminum bases. I super glue the seal in place in my base.

    I find that tightening the rear two thumbscrews and just turn the front two until they contact the base is usually all you need. The weight of the base, reservoirs, powder and shot are all you need to make the seal work. Tightening the rear two thumbscrews keeps the base from moving laterally from the force of the rack on the nylon thrust screws.

    If you take the time to make a couple of brass bushings to reduce the size of two mounting holes in the base you can operate successfully with very little torque on the thumbscrews.

    Jim Skeel
     
  12. volksbugusa

    volksbugusa TS Member

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    Whiz
    Just want you to know that I did not purchase the used unit on ebay.The 800 plus was purchased brand new from the factory.

    I did lower station one a couple of turns and station two slightly ,and that did help. I did not touch the index pad. At the moment the machine is completing its cycle, guess I am just not use to the machine.
    The upstroke still is not as smooth (more resistance) as the down stroke. The turret turns just fine. I am sure the machine needs to break in.

    Wad Carrier should SWING OUT--you are correct post edit completed

    Jim
    If I still feel the same way about the machine next weekend then I am going to try your suggestion.
    Empty all the stations...and try one at a time.

    Thank you everyone.
     
  13. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    One reason for high efforts is dirt/plastic build up in the shell holders. Here is my solution:

    Use a good fitting bronze brush mounted on the tool head. The brush needs to be slightly larger than the inside of the shell holder. Bore brushes will usually not be big enough. I prefer a chamber brush.

    Clean the shell holders periodically. Swab them out with a patch and a good plastic cutting bore solvent. This involves removing them from the loader.

    It cannot hurt to polish the inside of the shell holders. Put some JB Bore Paste on a patch and use a tight fitting jag. The smoother the inside of the shell holder the less chance for build up.

    Jim Skeel
     
  14. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    This is a very informative thread and i learned a couple things, thanks. Volksbug indicated that it required a "little pressure" on the up-stroke to complete the cycle. I interpreted this as meaning that it took just that. I just now went out to my empty reloader, ran it through a few cycles(sans hulls) and it works effortlessly in both up and down strokes.

    I ran 5 steel base hulls through, noticing the usual (to me) resistance at the re-sizing post, nothing heavy, then ran 5 brass base hulls and found them to go through a bit easier, as usual. I would think this is quite normal to have some resistance, but how much is too much?

    I did not, in my statement above, wish to imply that one should man-handle the machine or use a cheater bar to crank it through, but it seems reasonable that the machine should offer some resistance when it is pushing a hull into station 1.

    Thanks for the tips on the powder seal and the screws on the base. You guys are good.
     
  15. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    The amount of resistance that you get from steel base hulls depends partly on the hull brand but mostly on the diameter of the chamber of the gun that fired them. The larger the chamber the more the steel expands and the more difficult it is to stuff it into a ring sizer. I've had some that are so big that it's scary to try to resize them with the die because of the effort involved. That's why I use a Supersizer on everything now...I know that all the hulls are the same size going into the P-W so any unusual resistance is noticeable.

    MK
     
  16. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    Unknown, that probably makes good sense to re-size them prior to running them through the PW. In doing so, both brass and steel should offer the same amount of resistance, eh? I can't say i have found a hull that required a great deal of effort, just some more than others, but anything to reduce wear and tear on the machinery has to be a good thing.
     
  17. volksbugusa

    volksbugusa TS Member

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    Jim
    It was driving me crazy all day that up to this point I have been unable to narrow down my issue.
    When I came home from work I took your advise and emptied all the dye's. I started with station one and took a look at the bottom of the dye and noticed that the shell was not fully seated.
    I removed the stem from station one and adjusted the bottom screw and then re installed the stem back to its station. Flat side was lined up with the set screw and also bottom out in the base. As soon as i corrected this adjustment things really started to smooth out. I also adjusted the primer station again. I kept on adjusting until the primer was seating to my liking. Wow what a difference. Now the machine is nice and smooth.
    I also purchased a can of teflon spray..very nice product. So now I am feeling much better about the machine.
    Thank you everyone...
     
  18. volksbugusa

    volksbugusa TS Member

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    Jim
    It was driving me crazy all day that up to this point I have been unable to narrow down my issue.
    When I came home from work I took your advise and emptied all the dye's. I started with station one and took a look at the bottom of the dye and noticed that the shell was not fully seated.
    I removed the stem from station one and adjusted the bottom screw and then re installed the stem back to its station. Flat side was lined up with the set screw and also bottomed out in the base. As soon as i corrected this adjustment things really started to smooth out. I also adjusted the primer station again. I kept on adjusting until the primer was seating to my liking. Wow what a difference. Now the machine is nice and smooth.
    I also purchased a can of teflon spray..very nice product. So now I am feeling much better about the machine.
    Thank you everyone...
     
  19. volksbugusa

    volksbugusa TS Member

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    Jim
    It was driving me crazy all day that up to this point I have been unable to narrow down my issue.
    When I came home from work I took your advise and emptied all the dye's. I started with station one and took a look at the bottom of the dye and noticed that the shell was not fully seated.
    I removed the stem from station one and adjusted the bottom screw and then re installed the stem back to its station. Flat side was lined up with the set screw and also bottom out in the base. As soon as i corrected this adjustment things really started to smooth out. I also adjusted the primer station again. I kept on adjusting until the primer was seating to my liking. Wow what a difference. Now the machine is nice and smooth.
    I also purchased a can of teflon spray..very nice product. So now I am feeling much better about the machine.
    Thank you everyone...
     
  20. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    Another happy ending : )
     
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