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P/W 800+- New Index pad problems

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by skeet_man, Apr 17, 2010.

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  1. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Just received my new index pad from P/W in the mail today, which is a new design, its how a rectangular shape, as opposed to the semi-circle.

    Put in on, and can't seem to be able to get it to work. Set it up just like the old one, with a credit cards thickness b/w the pin and the pad with the handle all the way up. Everything appears to work OK, until it gets to the point that the pin releases, which seems to happen too early with the new pad, and the turret doesn't quite make it to the next detent, and i'm about a half a shell off from center (loading 28ga right now, and the spent primer knockout is hitting the lip of the die). Put the old pad back in, and it works fine.

    Anyone have any ideas? I followed the instructions they included to the letter, I'm wondering if I just got a bad part, or there's additional parts I should have been told to buy to make the new pad work... @ least I was able to jerry rig my old pad plate back together w/ jb weld and a steel brace on the back, but not sure how many shells thats really going to last for...
     
  2. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Skeeter, I don't think the pads the problem. It's been so many years ago that I screwed that up, I can't remember what the issue was. Something to do with the star gear maybe? There is something stopping it from indexing I think. You should chase Whiz or the Loc Doc or Jim Cunningham. Good luck, Bob
     
  3. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Bob- Thanks for the post, but in this case, i'm pretty sure its the pad. I broke the original one last week, and b/w then and now, I managed to half-assed repair it. I put the original one in, everything is perfect. I put the new "redesigned" one that I just received today, and it won't turn far enough. I guess the new design is less than 6 months old, because a friend of mine just bought a new PW, mfg in december, and his had the old style pad, so i'm not really even sure anyone on here can help me, as the only people that would have the index pad i'm talking about are the ones that bought one in the last 6 months...
     
  4. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Call Whiz White, he should be able to help.
     
  5. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Solved my own problem (I think, fingers crossed).

    The "index pin" , which pops down lock the index pad, which in turn facilitates the rotation of the turret, is adjustable vertically via a setscrew in the back.

    Unfortunately, in none of the literature I read about the 800+, 800B, Whiz's notes, or the instructions that came w/ the pad, was there any mention of adjusting this pin that I could find ANYWHERE, plus, the only way you can even see that setscrew is if you are looking at the machine from the back, not easy when its bolted down to a table. I loosened the setscrew, moved the whole assembly down about a 16th, and voila, good or better than new. Only cycled the machine a couple times, but everything appears right as rain now, will do a little closer inspection when I get back from my league banquet this evening.
     
  6. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    There isn't a pin "adjustment". The pin rides on top of the Index Pad, no particular extra force, save the coil spring in its housing. The set-screw only applies pressure on the long coil spring on top of he pin, which in turn pushes the Index Pin down. It really does not matter how you set the hex set-screw on top. Just keep it level with the housing.

    If you're breaking Index Pads, something other than the pad is out of adjustment.

    If you've messed with the Shell Seating Post's height, or the Primer Seating Assembly's height, or the Index Pad's orientation, these in turn affect the amount of down travel of the Crosshead, and ultimately, the amount of pressure applied to the Index Pad. A good "Rule of Thumb" is to check the TOP LINK's position in its housing when the machine is in the HOME position. You should have a very minimal amount of free play. All of this is mentioned in my "Lube & Mint Instructions" on my website. This sounds silly, but it is THE WAY IT'S DONE.

    One thing I find is that if a person has removed their Index Pad for some reason, they usually end up having problems, one of which is the reocurrence of pads breaking.

    As mentioned in one of my previous threads, and it's too long to do here again, installing a new Index Pad is NOT as simple as it looks. You MUST remove the Shell Seating Post AND the Primer Seating Assembly, install the Index Pad and check the Upper Link's position, then install the Shell Seating Post for correct height, AND THEN FINALLY, the Primer Seating Assembly.

    You do this in ANY OTHER sequence, or fail to do it in the above sequence, THEN YOU'LL HAVE PROBLEMS. I guarantee it! I am not sure even Bruce understands this procedure. I was fortunate to have Jean school me on this procedure when I was at the factory on one of my frequent occasions, prior to her early retirement. I was told then that P/W did NOT reveal this info because of the related problems it could have invoked.

    Sounds like your crosshead is going down too far.

    Now, had you purchased the Index Pad from me and not the factory, you would have received my step-by-step instructions on the successful installation procedures. I have re-written many of P/W's instructions sheets and enclose my versions with the items I sell.

    WW
     
  7. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I had adjusted nothing on the index pad before it broke. I had run about a thousand shells with no problem before this happened (just started using the machine a couple months ago), then all of the sudden, it went. About the only plausible cause I can think of was I had a primer that wasn't up quite high enough, although I couldn't find one that was sticking out far enough to catch, but who knows..

    Mike- The adjustment i'm taking about is on the index pin itself, not the index pad, which is what I believe you're referring to. The index pin being part #98, the pad being part #113. By dropping the pin down, the pin holds the pad in place just a fraction of second longer, allowing the turret to complete its turn. BTW, league banquet was great, one of the best steaks of my life!

    Whiz- The set screw i'm referring to the one on the back of the crosshead (its a part #31 screw), not the part #96 screw that I think you think i'm referring to. As I mentioned above to mike, moving the index pin "cylinder" (part #99) down allowed the new style index pad to be held in place just a bit longer, allowing it to index to the correct position. I would have purchased the part through you, but I thought PW might be able to get it to me a little faster since I THOUGHT they were closer to me at the time (guess I need a geography lesson, since I now see on google that you're location is quite a bit closer to me LOL), and I needed the part ASAP. Guess it didn't help anyways, since it took USPS 5 days to get me a priority mail package...

    One thing I found when reinstalling the new pad (maybe it was always there). I set the index pad spacing (using a cc for the gap as per your P/W primer) w/ out the primer seat or shell seat. However, when I go to install the primer seat, by the time I adjust it up far enough to seat the primers flush, the gap b/w the pin and pad has widened, indicating to me that the crosshead is now bottoming out on the primer seat, instead of the index pad. Any thoughts here? Also having another situation where I'll get 18 or 19 out of 20 shells where the primer sits flush, then i'll get one that sits a little proud. Is there anything I can do about this?
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    also, what part number are you referring to when you say "top link"? I can't find reference to this part name anywhere.
     
  9. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    alright, think i'm getting on the right track.

    i'm assuming by top link, whiz refers to the rack gear, or the upper actuating arm. If this is the case, when the press crosshead was bottomed out, there was about 1/4" of movement backward in the rack gear. I removed the index pad assembly, and adjusted it down so that when the crosshead is down, there's just a touch of movement in the rack gear. Then i reinstalled the shell seat, and adjusted accordingly. Then i installed the primer seat, adjusted the primers to sit flush, and it appears to be working quite well now, and the crosshead is no longer finding "bottom" from the primer seat, but from the index pad, like its supposed to. Only loaded a handful of shells, but everything appears to be closer to where it should be than it was. Will load some more tomorrow and see what happens.

    definitely a whole new learning curve after loading on mecs for my whole career. Interesting to see how the most innocuous part or adjustment can effect the whole rest of the operation. Most of the adjustments are the kind of thing where if you play with it enough, you'll probably stumble onto the right combination, but with the help of the PW gurus, esp whiz, things get where they need to be a whole lot quicker.
     
  10. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Item "E" is the Upper Link.
     
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