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Outlaw Lead Shot

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by topgun, May 20, 2007.

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  1. topgun

    topgun TS Member

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    Just finished reading the thread re the cost of lead shot. The jist of is that the price of lead is going to force many of us out of the shooting game or at least to cut back. Also there were some suggestions to boycott buying shot altogether. Reading and thinking about that while belonging to a club fighting environmental issues such as shot leaching into the aquafier and poisoning woman and children, etc. I can't help but wonder if it would be advantagous at this time to demand of our legislators, EPAs, Department of the Interior or whoever that lead shot be outlawed period. Non-toxic shot is available and the reason given for its high price is that the industry doesn't sell enough of it. Well wouldn't outlawing lead make them produce more and subsequently make it for less. What about subsidizing the ammunition companies for awhile, like we do to farmers for not growing tobacco, with the 10% excise tax we pay on ammo and firearms. Obviously this change would have to phase out over a few years but maybe the alternative would be for many of us would be to have our clubs shut down and/or not be able to afford to shoot at all.
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Sheer hysteria. Where do you get the idea about shot leaching int the aquifer and poisoning women and children? If that were the case no one could live in the areas where lead is mined.

    our club has recovered lead from the shooting area (in water) every 7 years on average. The shot recovered is very good usable shot. other than some silt and a miniscule amount of oxide, it is all there just like when it fell into the water.

    You sound like a liberal puke to me. Go hug a buzzard.

    HM
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    That suggestion would probably give Sarah Brady an orgasm.<br>
    <br>
    I have never heard a more classic example of "shooting yourself in your own foot".<br>
     
  4. topgun

    topgun TS Member

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    HM:
    It was just an exageration and I though you'd realize that but it's exactly what the people that are trying to shut our club down are saying. If I had the time to google it I could find you some environmental people that are saying similar things. I could also find you some states that are considering outlawing lead shot for small game. I'm saying lead is a problem. So reread the article, tell me what you really think and watch your mouth!
    PT
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    One of the problems is that the EPA has set levels so low for contamination by various sources that they approach the point of being ridiculous.<br>
    <br>
    On the topic of disposal of small batteries, like camera batteries, that contain mercury, the local dump officials proclaimed that just one of these batteries in six tons of garbage exceeds federal guidelines.<br>
    <br>
    It's no wonder that they feel hunting small game with lead shot "pollutes" the environment.
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    As a long time waterfowl hunter, I watched the steel shot controversy bloom into full idiocy.

    We had a massive goose population dieoff in the SW corner of the state, and a local supposed outdoor media type gushed about being moved to tears by the truckloads of dead geese that were "poisoned by lead shot".

    A few weeks later it was on the last page of the paper, birds were killed by Avian Cholera type C caused by water kept open too long and a heavy congestion of the population in one area.

    The truth only hit a few people. "poisoned by lead shot" hit everyone who watched the newscast.

    You are saying lead is a problem. Mybe so, but only the bobblehead human stupidity about it is all I can see.

    How many studies are there showing lead going into the aquifer? Around here there is iron, arsenic, paper mill flock, e coli, and a host of other contaminants. That's why wells have to be tested.

    Our gun club recovers its lead. All gun clubs should do so, not because of environmental bullying, but for sheer economic reasons. Figure it out at even only 1 0unce per target thrown over a several year period. It comes to 219 tons of lead per million targets. At 50 cents a pound salvage price that's 31 grand before recovery costs.

    I hope no one is dumb enogh to let that get away just to poison a fefw people.

    HM

    We throw 1.5 million targets yearly approximately.
     
  7. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    I remember when I was taking care of the disposal of the water from our commercial bluing tanks at Kolar Arms, the DNR told me that the amount of mercury in those light-up tennis shoes that some kids wear, was greater than the regulatory amount of all of Wisconsin's industries, could dispose in a landfill.
     
  8. lytnin1

    lytnin1 Member

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    Some states here downunder banned the use of lead shot for waterfowl hunting some years ago under the banner of lead [ a natural element] poisoning . Now they are finding more and more dead waterfowl killed by rusting steel pellets [Tetanus] than were found previous dying of lead effects.
    Our main National shooting ground recently had the lead removed and over 300 tonne was collected in front of the 4 main traps used [ out of 15 traps available].
     
  9. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    The plain facts are that in neutral pH, lead mobility is zero. The NSSF has well documented reports on various aspects of elemental lead. If you've got a pH issue - that's another thing.

    That said, while the shooting industry is committed to lead, there is a movement to non-toxic ammunition and it gets more pervasive every year. Shoot waterfowl or migratory birds on government land and in many/most cases you're already required to shoot one of the available non-toxic loads.

    Some clubs such as our are mandated to shoot non-toxic ammo as a way to continue shooting over/into water/wetlands.

    However, right now we shoot steel cheaper than others shoot lead, but we've been on par with factory lead prices for years and can re-load steel 20% LESS than lead NOW.

    As for breaking birds, steel is just as capable, it getting over the steel stigma for most shooters.

    Lead is here to stay for some time, but its not a given.

    Jay Spitz
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Some ditzy woman in Washington State was trying to push through a TOTAL ban on ALL lead shot there just a year or two ago. We had a lengthy thread on it here. Logic, facts and common sense means nothing to these people. They have an agenda, and nothing is going to deter them from it. They want all guns and all hunting banned, and will ban anything anytime the opportunity presents itself. It's the old slice of pie theory. Eventually they will reach their goal of no more pie.
     
  11. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    I don't mean to hijack this thread, but can someone explain the lead shot recovery process when it's done in a shot drop zone at a gun club?



    What I'm really looking at is, our club is fairly old. Only two traps, two skeet fields and a rifle range, but it's been there a while. The thing that I'm wondering about is that the shot drop zone for the trap fields is in a wooded area. Thus, my concern for how they recover the shot.


    Thanks for the input, Brett D.
     
  12. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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  13. derbyacresbob

    derbyacresbob Well-Known Member

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    halfmile, hugging buzzards in California is illeagle!
     
  14. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Where I shoot (Markham Park in S. Florida)the county has been collecting a "daily lead fee" for years. Supposedly it's to cover the cost of lead reclamation. We're still trying to figure out how any shot can be recovered in the wooded area the shot drops in without having the trees cut down which is not allowed in the park.


    Eric
     
  15. bayrat

    bayrat TS Member

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    On a ranch not far from here, (Texas Coast), land is day-leased for waterfowl hunting, geese and ducks, and for quail and dove hunting. Same land! Steel shot for the waterfowl and lead shot for the quail and dove. Steel in the morning and lead in the afternoon. IT ALL FALLS ON THE SAME OPEN GROUND!!!

    Now, tell me where that makes any sense!!

    ECT
     
  16. Trucido

    Trucido TS Member

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    You guys are missing the point regarding liberals banning lead shot.

    Liberals don't want to outlaw lead because it might poison people or animals that eat it or fish that swim in it or birds that sit on it. Obviously, the liberals (because they are by definition smarter than you, being that they are liberals) know that the lead that is sitting on the ground or in a lake is NOT going to poison anything/anyome. The public however (being stupider than the liberals) will believe that lead is the great killer of animals and man...which makes lead a good fall-guy.

    The liberals have come to the conclusion that lead is deadly to the animal which is impacted by the lead shot and they decided that they could outlaw killing waterbirds with lead, because lead in fact kills the waterbirds when they are shot with it.

    Liberals have yet to find a way to outlaw steel shot, which they know also kills birds that are shot with it. The reason that they have not found a way is that liberals know (again, they are smart guys!) that the public is not so stupid as to believe that steel is dangerous to the health of animals or people. Once liberals realize that steel can rust when sitting on the bottom of a lake and that animals can get tetinous poisoning from rust...they will outlaw steel shot as well...but it might take a while to convince people that steel is dangerous.

    Liberals hate guns. Liberals want all guns banned, especially those used to kill an innocent animal (don't really know what an innocent animal is...but I think liberals would agree that killing innocent animals is wrong).

    Liberals hate killing animals in general. The reason is that animals have a right to life, just like all those babies that are aborted...errr scratch that: animals outside the womb > babies inside. They also believe that the public is stupid enough to agree that killing animals is wrong...so long as they can still go to the market and buy their steaks. They have made this easy to believe, because the vast majority of the public believes meat they buy at the market is in fact synthetically manufactured behind the shelves in styrofoam containers and no animals are harmed in the process (just like in the movies where no animals were harmed during the filming).

    Ultimately, liberals hate guns and hate killing animals. The problem is that guns cannot be banned (we do have the 2nd amendment) and no law would ever pass to make hunting, or killing animals, illegal. This leads liberals to the obvious solution: ban the ammunition. Afterall, a gun without ammo doesn't do much good in killing things...
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    re recovery in wooded areas:

    Get yerself a BIG honkin vacuumcleaner..................

    HM
     
  18. DJM

    DJM Member

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    One big drawback to a lead shot ban is that it makes the older fixed choke shotguns useless. I have an older Browning over/under trap model with fixed chokes that serves me well. I know via a call to Browning that they for one do not recommend steel shot in any of their fixed choke shotguns.

    It seems to me in the realm of enviromental issues one can find data or "studies" to support either the pro or con side of any issue.
     
  19. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Many older fixed choke guns can shoot small steel without issue. While not recommended - partially because older fixed choke guns were not made during an era of small shot-size steel - we have a number of gents who shoot M12s, 870s, Ithacas etc... with fixed chokes and NO harm.

    Birds ingest gravel and inadvertently sometimes shot to aid their digestion. Shot can get picked up off the ground or in sediment of shallow water sources. While lead typically deposits into the bone, not tissue; it is erroneous to suggest lead cannot kill.

    Lead can kill, but lets understand the occurence is few and far between. Allowing the vegetation in a shotfall zone to grow does inhibit the residency of geese and other species.

    Jay Spitz
     
  20. k3uro

    k3uro Member

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    Hey,

    I have loaded steel and shot it in several of my hunting guns with no problem. I believe we could do it if we wanted to.

    Steel shot is a lot cheaper than lead by the Ton.

    Take care,

    Jim
     
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