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Otions some shoots geared to the top shooters

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Aug 25, 2008.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    After shooting registered targets over 40+ years I have noticed something w/options.

    Lewis class used to be paid 3 or 4 classes divided 50-30-20.
    most are now are 3 classes 60-40, the top shooters now get an extra 10%.

    The 25s option used to pay 2 places 60-40, now it pays one money, the top shooters win again by more than 40% of this option.

    The 50s used to be paid 50-30-20, now it is paid 60-40 on each 50, top shooters
    win again by more than 10%

    Some purses are listed 40-30-20-10 Hi gun, top shooters win again. They used to pay 40-30-20-10.

    The only good purse to play is the Great Eastern Purse 25-15-10-25-15-10 it pays the top 6 scores and the 4th place the 25% is where more shooters break and tie scores and more money is there for the split

    It used to be when I shot registered my scores hit the lewis class and almost covered my costs, but not any more.

    Could shoot programs options list payout be costing shooter participation?
    It has me, especially since retirement and limited monies.


    I am Gary Bryant and I approve this message.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    So, it seems that the way to solve the payout problem would be to become a top shooter. Then ya are paid more money.
     
  3. Nitro Power

    Nitro Power TS Member

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    Dr. Longshot,

    I don't understand all the controversy about option payouts and "spreading the money". You don't think the winning scores should win the trophies and the majority of the money? Why are people so intent that shooting a low score should still pay money and essentially be considered "winning". The lewis class is designed to be a little bit of a gamble if you shoot less than the winning score - but the remainder of the options should pay the winner. I don't see the logic where a 94 should be paid as much or more than a 97 - that makes no sense. This is a competitive sport and the winner should be rewarded and reimbursed for their efforts - not a losing score.

    I would also contend that the payoffs have changed due to the lack of option money played by shooters. All this whining and crying about big dogs has done nothing but take shooters out of the options. I viewed the payout for the Grand American and that is pitiful in comparision to past years. Is it worth spreading the money so thin that folks are getting less than $20.00 for "winning" in an option? At the smaller shoots we are seeing added money cut clear down to $25.00. Why should we pay the losing score? You did not win you do not deserve to get money - period.

    Nitro
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    It seems to me that the top shooter should get more money. I still do not 100% understand all the options. The lewis is a crap shoot. I have only been to a few shoots this year and the lewis pot has been kinda weak. Also the class purses are not getting money put into them. Maybe it should be targets only+ bragging rights and then money entries. Less of course shoot management sets up a free lewis or purse. I am not a top shooter, but have won some events and options. Also I tend to miss the lewis class when I shoot well, but 1 or 2 birds from winning class or yardage. I play the 25s only because it drives me to shoot better......but lack of practice from 21 yards, not shooting very well at yardage.
     
  5. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    I have a solution!

    Play the options and get your money back...no matter what your score is! That way you are always a winner!

    Of course winning becomes only bragging rights!
     
  6. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    Quit penalizing people for winning a little money,and there might be more shooters play the options.
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If you are looking to win money and make a profit, the shooting sports is not the place. HMB
     
  8. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    I still like the idea of everyone going and shooting their 100 targets, and we'll put everyone's name in a hat and draw the winner....

    I work the classification / cashier desk at all the ATA shoots in Alaska, by and large..

    There are really only two kinds of shooters: Those that play all the options, and those that play none.

    sure, with $4 gas and $50 lead, the number of folks playing the options has dropped.

    It is, after all, "optional"
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Again the Dr. is wrong. I just checked two shoot programs, both OHio shoots, and the options are as he complained "they used to be". I am sure if I checked more programs they would also show a mixture of the old and new.

    Pick your shoots and pick your options but quit whinning.

    Don
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    maclellan1911 honestly stated that he did not understand all of the options. This was a good statement. Many shooters, who play options do not recognize that they do not understand them.

    How many know the difference between a purse and a high gun purse? Many shooters at larger shoots have shot a 99 in a high gun purse (3 places- 50/30/20) and are surprised that the score did not pay anything. At the Dixie Grand next January, if the club were to have a high gun Great Eastern purse that paid 25-15-10-25-15-10 would probably only pay 100 straights.

    How many recognize that a Lewis purse that pays three classes is actually a 33% high gun purse? A modified Lewis that pays three classes will pay 50% of the purse to the champion and the runner up.

    How many on this site could clearly explain a Ford purse?

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    Troy Michigan
    zarathrusta has a good point. A few years back I quit playing options except for the Grand. After this year's Grand (I shot 16 events and won $90) I think I'll quit options there too. Still really enjoy shooting but am not good enough to win any money consistantly. Shoot for my personal best and enjoy every shot.
     
  12. FN in MT

    FN in MT TS Member

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    Oct 25, 2007
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    Options are just that...OPTIONAL. Don't play them. I'm headed to the Western Grand next week. Should be 500+ shooters with some real Champions. I'm NOT playing any options. I don't have a ice cubes chance in Hell of beating Ohye or Harrison.

    IF in fact the pay out schedule has changed...now thats an interesting topic for discussion. Was the change a conspiracy to line the pockets of the Big Dogs? Doubt it.

    FN in MT
     
  13. maltzahn

    maltzahn Active Member

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    Shooters playing options have dropped off. Those that feel they can't win, those that can't affort, and those that are tired of betting on a return that is certain to be less than the intial price of the option. Too many splits. After all, option players have a gamblers mentality, making a wager on either having an exceptional day or where a line falls. Getting a 5 dollar return on a 10 dollar bet is not what is expected. It becomes easier to just not play the game, even for those that can afford to gamble.

    The money is an important and a traditional aspect in trapshooting. Many will make a decision on what shoot to attend based on money. Compare programs and choose the shoot among many available for the same weekend. How the options are set up can influence those that like to shoot for the money.

    I know my crew that travels together makes this decision every weekend. The program and option decisions have cost several shoots including large shoots 4 or 5 shooter for 4 or 5 days of targets every year. We also realize which states and clubs have option participation.

    Several kind of shooters to cater to, option players are just one type. Clubs that offer something for everyone win the numbers game.

    Maltzie
     
  14. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    Gotta agree with zarathrusta. The big dogs get all of the money but they don't get mine. Just like the lottery, you can't win if you don't play. You can't lose either.

    Bob
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I guess figuring out the splits on a 60/40 25 options and a 50/30/20 on the 50s was too much work? I liked the old method of doing business, in lots of ways. Easier format made the 25s one money and the 50s just two places. Hap
     
  16. trapwife

    trapwife Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Anyone know why the Ford purses were eliminated from the big handicaps at the Grand?
     
  17. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The way sports are designed is for the winners to get paid off and the losers to get nothing, thats just the way it is ... To re adjust things any other way is taking the integrity out of the sport itself and is very much the reason even the losers are walking away ... The losers expect to lose, how much depends on what they play or how they play it but when and if they win they are thrilled ... The Big Dogs are supposed to win and the Little dogs are supposed to sit on the porch and watch the Big Dogs play ... Thats just the way it is, has been, and will always be ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  18. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    I know of $1200+ for a 50 at the Grand, and that was for 2 50's. Today there are a whole lot more 50's than 40 years ago. I would assume that with the improved equipment and the number of people hitting the options, 25 one money & 50 2 monies was the only solution. I always liked the ATA Rose Point system for the purse. No matter how many people tied on a score, it 1 person broke a 95 and 25 broke a 96 each 96 got more that the lone 95. Will not happen with %'s
     
  19. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Pat's right...most of us can't explain them.

    That's OK..play away. Just don't whine when you don't win so much.

    After all, how many folks walk up to the craps table in Vegas with a firm knowledge of the game Yahtzee and figure that, since it's dice, it must be close to the same, right?
     
  20. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    i think that the money should be removed from trap shooting and shoot for fun, and if you are not having fun go do something else.
     
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