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OT - SASS Revolvers -Uberti, Ruger, Taurus

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dmarbell, May 16, 2008.

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  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    For a hoot, I'm considering Cowboy shooting. I have a Super Blackhawk, and have access to another one, so I could buy or load .44 specials and try it out. These guns have adj sights, and therefore don't qualify for the classic cowboy categories. It takes two revolvers to shoot the cowboy game, at least at the club near me. (Ignore for now the rifle and shotgun requirements, please.)

    I've been looking at .357 single action revolvers, so I can shoot .38 specials (or I think even .38 S&W lighter loads). The economical choices seem to be Uberti Cattleman, Taurus Gaucho and Ruger Vaquero. The Taurus and Ruger are transfer bar guns, while the Uberti is not. The Ubertis can be had for close to $100 less each than the others.

    Anybody had experience with all three guns? Anybody had enough experience with the Ubertis to recommend or not?

    I know that black powder revolvers would allow the lowest cost of entry, but I'm not sure I want to go that route.

    Danny
     
  2. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    Danny, The Blackhawks may still be used to shoot Modern category I believe, unless they have changed that since I quit shooting SASS.

    I have owned and shot two of the three you mentioned above. If you plan on getting into this big time and shooting thousands of rounds through your guns;buy the Vaquero and shoot 38 special loads. My Vaqueros were the full-sized ones in 44 mag. The new Vaqueros are closer in size to the old Colts.

    I have never had any trouble with the Ubertis that I have. You are correct about springs and other parts breaking more frequently than the coil springs of the Vaqueros. I have several friends who have had their Ubertis converted to coil springs and have eliminated some of the spring problems.

    I also owned and shot two original Colts. The Cattleman, and Cimmaron were just as smooth and more accurate than the one 45 Colt I had.

    There are a lot of guns out there to choose from. Some cheap ones, very expensive ones, and some cheaper well-made guns that will serve you well. Spend some time talking to guys shooting these guns. Most of them at the clubs I shot at would let you shoot their guns if you asked. A good bunch of people and a fun fast-growing sport. Good luck with your choices. Steve
     
  3. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Get the small frame Ruger Vaquero(s) in .38/.357 cal. These are strong dependable guns and they are a easy to slick up.

    The most competive pistol round for SASS is a very light loaded .38 special with 125-158 g round nose lead bullets. Most people load them so light that they actually need separate ammo for the rifle because the friction of a longer barrel slows the pistol ammo down to dangerous levels.

    For your carbine/rifle get the new Marlin with the ballard rifling (not micro groove).

    If you want to win matches you will have to have a good 97 winchester shot gun in 12 guage. Shoot 7/8 or 1 Oz target loads in that. Spend your money here and don't settle for a worn out beater.
     
  4. lightfoot

    lightfoot TS Member

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    One criticism of the old Vaquero was that when loading/unloading, once the cylinder clicked, you had rotated too far. The New Vaquero doesn’t have this problem. Does anyone know if the Uberti or the Taurus revolvers have this problem?
     
  5. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    No they don't. They're like the Colts. Steve
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    I have a pair of Navy Arms (Uberti) Schofields in .45 Colt. My rifle is a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in .45 Colt.<br>
    <br>
    I had considered going with 44 Mag, shooting .44 Specials for SASS and .44 Mag for hunting. But I prefer the 45-70 for hunting large game, and the .25-20 for small game. But since you've already got a SBH in 44 Maq, it would be economical from an equipment standpoint to get a Vaquaro and a lever gun in 44 Mag.<br>
    <br>
    For a cartridge that's more economical than the .44 Special for SASS, the .38 Special is good. However, if I had to do it over again I'd go for the .32-20. First, it's a traditional cartridge, actually chambered in both handguns and rifles in the old west. (The .38-40 and .44-40 also qualify. The .38 Special, .44 special and .45 Colt were not chambered in rifles until well into the 20th century.) Second, it reloads with about half the lead and half the blackpowder of the .44 and .45 calibers. It's only drawback compared to the .38 Special is that brass is not as cheap.<br>
    <br>
    I like the Schofields and the Marlin 1894, and at the time they were only offered in .45 Colt, thus limiting my options for cartridge choice. I previously used SAA's in .357 and an ancient Winchester 1892 in 25-20 (SASS sanctioned for rifles but not for handguns, and I'm not aware of any handgun ever being chambered for this cartridge anyway). Since the 25-20 is a necked down 32-20, it reallygot me to thinking about going with the 32-20. BUt at the time, though 32-20 handguns were available, the .32-20 rifles were scarce.<br>
    <br>
    For handguns, if the Vaquaro now has a cylinder that properly indexes for loading, I'd go with it and not look back for a SAA style gun. Particularly the stainless model for blackpowder loads.<br>
    <br>
    I know you said not to bother with rifles, but I think they're an intergral part of chosing a cartridge. Most are made in .45 Colt, but not all are made in .44 Special, .44-40, .38 Special or .32-20. Check the options from the manufacturers before settling on a handgun.<br>
    <br>
    The best modern rifle in my opinion is the Marlin Cowboy series. It's the most reliable with any of the pistol cartridges, followed by the Uberti clones of the Winchester 1892 (sold via Uberti USA, Navy Arms, et al).<br>
    <br>
    The toggle actions (Henry, 1866 and 1873) are nice guns, but are a bit on the heavy side and most are quite muzzle heavy, as the companies making them usually do not taper their barrels. If any actions are going to give longevity issues, it will be the toggle actions, and particularly the "brass" (actually bronze) receiver models. The toggle action was weak and prone to breakage then, and that remains true today. But from an authenticity standpoint, the 1866 and the 1873 are the lever actions that won the west.<br>
    <br>
    The lever gun I do not care for is the Win/USRA 94. These are a compromise gun, since they were designed for rifle length cartridges, not pistol cartridges. If you get one that works flawlessly, great. But some people have been bitterly disappointed.<br>
    <br>
    I won't bother with shotgun recommendations. I'm using a beater Winchester Model 24 hammerless double trigger side by side in 12ga with 18" barrels I picked up for $79. I found a set of full length barrels in mod and full at a gunshow for $10. It works.<br>
    <br>
    Some observations - one of the harder cartridges to reload is the 38-40, because the neck doesn't always work well with wads. Often the wads are pushed down into the wider body unless short bullets are used. The .44-40, though similar, is easier to reload. (I had an old Rossi 1892 clone in 44-40 that I cut to a 16" trapper. This was a pre-Puma medallion gun. Worked great and fed flawlessly. I found the 44-40 was a bit more expensive to load and shoot than the .45 Colt, mainly because of the cost of brass. The 44-40 holds an edge over the .45 Colt for extraction, because of a much wider rim. The easiest to reload are the 38 Special, the 44 Special and the 45 Colt because they are straight walled. The 38 Special is particularly economical to reload because brass is cheap, lasts a long time, and the bullets are smaller. The .32-20 is the most economical for lead and powder, but brass isn;t as cheap as the 38 Special. .32-20 brass is also thin, and care must be taken to prevent tearing case mouths during bullet seating. There is no perfect all around cartridge - each has it's pluses and drawbacks, for ease of reloading, historical accuracy, and economics.<br>
    <br>
    One last observation about rifles, specifically the Marlin 1894, and light loads. The Marlin should not be used with so-called "squib" or "powder puff" loads. When a cartridge is fired, the brass case momentarily expands to seal the breech, then it rebounds back (assuming hot loads aren't used). But, if the load is too light, the case may not expand enough to seal the breech. Gas can leak around the case. This is common with all of the lever guns used for SASS. However, the Marlin aggravates this problem because the flat top bolt and the topstrap of the receiver will channel that gas (and any debris laying there) into your face. Some debris can get under your glasses and into your eyes. For this reason I never shoot low velocity, low pressure loads in the Marlin 1894. If you see black soot on the side of the case, the case isn't expanding enough to seal. Increase the charge if you can, or switch to a powder that gives more pressure.<br>
     
  7. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    The man is 100% right--stay away from the 38/40 for reloading.
    As a side, I may be the last person who has taken a deer with a 1860 revolver. I milled the sight down and silver saudered in a blade and filed it to shoot on target at 25 yds (these guns were made to shoot about a foot high at 25yds for use against oncoming armies at a good distance) Anyway, I loaded 30gr FFFg and a round ball. I waited until the deer, small spike maybe 100#, lowered his head and had a outstreched leg. I hoped to get a lung. I shot, he fell, immediately got up, swapped ends and I shot him again. He wobbled away for about 100 yards and went down. I waited about 30 min and followed up. It took another shot in the head. Dead deer. Very anemic loads only penetraited about 3". Since that time I have given the same treatment to a Colt Walker (both Uberties) and havent had a chance to try a deer again. It is claimed that a Walker will come close to a 44 Mag but I have serious doubts. It would definitely make a good boat anchor! For all the sleek feel of the 1860, the Walker is like a concrete block! They are a heck of a lot of fun to shoot and not as bad to clean as some would make you believe.
     
  8. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Try it, keep it simple, shoot to have fun, borrow some equipment if you need to, Cowboy shooters are quick to help a new person. Cowboy shooting was started so adults could play "Cowboy again". Then the "gamers" came and started changing the game. If you want to become a "gamer" then start shooting the sissy loads and worry more about winning then having a good time.

    Do you think John Wayne would shoot a sissy load 38 when the Indians and Rustlers were a coming. Be what you will be, a whimp or a real Cowboy. 45LC Vaquaros, Win 94 45LC all the way along with a Stoeger SxS coach gun. It costs more to dress and dress your wife than the guns do, so beware.

    Don
    aka - Col. Samuel Larkspur of the late CSA

    Brian: Do we have another thing in common? What's the world coming to?
     
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