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OT - Rhetorical Iraq War Question of the Week

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dmarbell, Jul 20, 2007.

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  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    This is actually a two-part question.

    1) Those supporting the war in Iraq say we need more time to train the Iraqi military and police force, and to root out the terrorists. What would your opinion be if I had a crystal ball, and I could tell you that in 20 years we would still have 175,000 troops in Iraq, the Iraqi military and police were still not capable of keeping security, and we had lost and were losing US troops at the rate of about 80 per month? I'll conceded that also over that 20 year period we have not had a terrorist attack anywhere near the magnitude of 9/11.

    2) Tell the truth. If we could have known, before March 2003, that the situation in Iraq would be what it is today, with no resolution in sight, would you still have been for the invasion? Take into account that bin Laden is still alive and seems to be directing al Qaeda, or at least inspiring them. Take into account also that, based on reliable intelligence sources, al Qaeda is back to pre 9/11 strength in Pakistan.

    Danny, the Clueless
     
  2. TommyTEREX

    TommyTEREX Member

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    Danny, I said it in 2003, and I say it today, " welcome to Viet Nam, ".

    Before the flack begins, I`m a republican, I voted for Bush, and h##l yes I support our troops. I wish the country had shone some support when I served.

    Tom R.
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    (1) Your crystal ball is faulty. This will all be over one way or another long before 20 years is up. Either we'll surrender thanks to the Treason Lobby, or the Iraqis will put someone in power who isn't afraid to use it, or a kook will nuke a US city, and we'll turn Iran (the chief instigator of problems in Iraq) into a self-lighting glass parking lot.<br>
    <br>
    (2) I'd still support the invasion, because it was the right thing to do. Since you have a crystal ball, it would also tell us what our mistakes were, so those could be corrected too, and there would be no problem.<br>
     
  4. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't possibly add a thing to what Brian wrote. Spot on.

    Jeff P
    10 years USAF (recce and Spec Ops AC-130 Gunships)
    3 trips to Bosnia
     
  5. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Brian in OR,

    1) Pay attention to the question. IF this were still going on in 20 years, not what is the probability.

    2) If you'd still support the invasion, then I don't think too many mistakes were made. This is the expected outcome of many an advisor. This has been the quagmire faced daily by Israel, after they invaded and occupied an Islamic territory in 1948. See 1) above. It's been 59+ years since Israel was given it's homeland back, which it had not had for a couple of thousand years. People who were born in 1948 are 59+ years old. They have never been subjected to the situation that existed in 1948. Yet they still hate each other intensely. Why was the occupation of a different Islamic territory looked upon differently? Those people are crazy. They need to be sealed in their homelands, like in an asylum. We should have sealed our borders and used all these resources to make sure terrorists cannot strike us again on our soil.

    Danny
     
  6. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    Danny, don't be such a fool. Isn't it obvious by now that we can't seal our borders? Hell, the Mexicans pour through like water and that's only one border. Wake up man and smell the coffee.
     
  7. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Danny, unlike Hitlery, knowing what I know now I would still have voted the same. All other justifications aside, some have said this is a war about oil....and in a way it is. Not as the America haters describe it as taking it from anyone (history has proved that to be false), but this country/economy runs on oil. We have little thanks to environmentists, in part, who have denied us drilling, so we must import a large portion. The middle east has a large portion of the world's known reserves, hence, we must protect free access to it at a market controlled price untill we can wean ourselves from it in a controlled manner. To do otherwise is inviting destruction.

    Buz
     
  8. tgun90

    tgun90 TS Member

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    We put a man on the moon we sure as hell can seal our borders,don;t give into Bush ,big business propaganda we can;t because we dam well can.
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    zarathrusta you don't seem to realize that what ever we say on this forum does nothing to support GWB or our troops. You must see the futility of arguing with a bunch of Liberals that want the right to write the rules. They do not allow changes in the rules. The rules must remain just as the Liberals have written them.

    Example "I'd still support the invasion, because it was the right thing to do. Since you have a crystal ball, it would also tell us what our mistakes were, so those could be corrected too, and there would be no problem." Remember no variations in the rules.

    "Pay attention to the question. IF this were still going on in 20 years, not what is the probability." see what I mean he can dream up a cock-a-mamie question about a Crystal Ball but no allowances for the reality of the workings of the Crystal Ball.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    ivanhoe,

    You are partially right about the cock-a-mamie-ness of this thread. Is no more trite than W. supporters who can chant "they'll just follow us home" or "we have to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here."

    If we had a terrorist attack on our soil today, and it was planned and executed by extremists born in the US, similar to what was being planned in Britain, would you say "see, we have to fight the terrorists there?"

    Danny
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Danny, contrary to popular belief, Israel is not the homeland of those who squatted there 59 years ago. those people had a homeland in an area between the black and Caspian Seas, called the Pale.

    Do a google on "Khazarian". This is one of the most misunderstood facts of the last century.

    HM
     
  12. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    I agree with Bob's point on the futility of arguing with libbies.


    Zara, the vast majority of shooters are either Repubs or Conservatives, and with the summer weather upon us, we are out doing that. For example, you won't have me to argue with tomorrow.
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    dmarbell very typical of the way you seem to think you come up with all this bull and then you say "IF" don't you know that "IF" is the biggest word in the English language. BTW do you remember a fella named Timothy McVey (Spelling)he is not around anymore to worry about.

    It seem to me that he planned and executed an act of terrorism on US soil and I believe he was born in the US and he got his just reward. One of the big troubles with you Liberal types is you have a short memory.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    It all depends on whether or not you think we are fighting terrorists or Iraqies. If there are no terrorists in Iraq. then we are wasting out time there. If there are then you are wrong. We need to eliminate them to a level where they are afraid to attack us cause they simply are not afraid of dying.
     
  15. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    ivanhoe,

    You might want to try rereading my posts here. I can't even figure out what the hell you're trying to say.

    Danny
     
  16. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Why don't you Bush and America bashers just Moveon over to www.dkos.org where you would fit it in with all the other nutjobs and leave us gunowners alone?
     
  17. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Cherokee Kid,

    I am a Bush basher, yes. I have never bashed America, not on this thread or any others. I care deeply for our country, and that's one reason I debate so much about this war. I was against it from the start, and felt like it would take us in the wrong direction. And it has, in my opinion.

    I am a gun owner, CCW holder, and participate in trap, skeet and SC.

    Why is it, I've asked over and over again, that conservatives have such a hard time debating. Many of them can do no better than "support the president or leave the country" or resorting to name calling?

    Danny
     
  18. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Don Surber: Democrats ‘achieve' 14 percent approval

    PI looked at the numbers last month, the Gallup Poll showed President Bush's job approval was at 32 percent, and Congress was at 24 percent. Could things get any worse?

    Of course they can. Never underestimate the power of the Democratic Party to self-destruct.

    The first job approval numbers for July are in and the Reuters/Zogby Poll shows Bush at 34 percent, Congress at 14 percent.

    Under Democratic leadership, Congress has gone from the brink of the abyss and leaped. Whee!

    Pollster John Zogby broke down the numbers.

    "The Democratic Congress gets poor marks across the ideological spectrum -- just 21 percent of liberals and 10 percent of the very liberal give it positive marks, while 14 percent of conservatives and 14 percent of the very conservative give it positive ratings," Zogby wrote.

    "Among Democrats, just 19 percent give Congress positive marks, compared to 13 percent of Republicans and 8 percent of political independents.

    "By way of comparison, the Republican Congress had a 23 percent positive job approval rating last October, just a week before voters tossed the GOP out of their leadership posts in both houses."

    After six months, Democrats do have one bipartisan accomplishment: Everyone hates Congress.

    Not so George Walker Bush. Among Republicans, 63 percent still think he is doing an outstanding job

    Congress now has no base outside of its staff, the reporters who cover it and Mom, and even she is wavering.

    I am not laughing. I am not gloating. I am troubled.

    I am not alone. Law professor Glenn Reynolds, who runs the Instapundit Web site, wrote, "This has gone past the point of being funny. It's really worrisome."

    In a democracy, people must have faith in their institutions. In a totalitarian government, fear will do.

    The problem is that neither party shows leaders in Washington who are in touch with the realities that their constituents face. Congressmen and senators have too much money, too much power and too much tenure.

    Last year, the congressional Republicans went hog wild on pork spending. Prosecutors put a couple of them in prison for selling favors. One of them was caught messing with the House pages, who are the equivalent of political altar boys.

    Voters threw the bums out. But unlike 1994, when voters voted in new Republican leadership, voters elected the old Democratic leadership. Democrat David Obey of Wisconsin became House appropriations chairman -- again after a 12-year absence.

    This is reform?

    Instead of addressing the energy crisis, tax reform, securing the borders or even increasing production of U.S. oil to end America's reliance on foreign oil, Democrats have one agenda item: Putting Bush's head on a plate.

    Their inability to impeach Bush may explain why only 19 percent of Democrats approve of the job being done by the Democratic Congress.

    But what about the 8 percent job approval by independents?

    Instead of debates, we get stunts like this week's all-night filibuster.

    Instead of compromise, we get up-or-down votes without amendments.

    Instead of tackling problems, we get hundreds of investigations into Bush.

    Instead of civility we get Democratic Senate Leader Harry Reid of Nevada taking a below-the-belt verbal jab at Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., and then making Specter wait 30 minutes to respond.

    Democratic leaders want to do nothing. They want to portray Republicans as obstructionists and Bush as evil, in the hopes of securing the presidency in 2008 and a 60-vote majority in the Senate.

    This probably will work.

    In driving down the public's confidence in the federal government, Democrats are counting on apathy. That is what happened in 2006 when more Republican voters from 2004 stayed home than Democratic voters did.

    But what if it doesn't? What if the public sees this cynicism for what it is? Whither the democracy?

    Our Congress will take the month of August off. They can take September through December off, too, for all I care.

    For the sake of the Republic, I hope that Democrats will get together at some point, review the public's reaction and come up with a plan to accomplish something other than pin-the-blame-on-the-elephant.
     
  19. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Checked my crystal ball. The U.S. leaves the Iraqi Shihite government in chaos. Terror rules the country until all the Iraqi Sunis have been exterminated. The Iranian Shihite government seeing a golden opportunity to spread their influence throughout the region usurps power in Iraq with little or no interference from the Iraqis since they are all Shihites anyway's. Use your own imaginations as to the rest!

    Robert
     
  20. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    STOKINPLS! That is the best thread I believe I have ever read on TS.com. That is the closest to the truth that I have heard. Not to say that the Republicans have done so good either, but I honestly believe that the Democrats just want to bash Bush in any way they can, trying to make themselves look good. I have yet to see anything good that they have accomplished lately. I wish I had an answer to it all and until I do I will keep writing and calling My congressman and senators for my state. Yes, I support Bush still and have yet to hear anyone with what I feel was a better plan of action. I would like to see more actions on the borders though, especially Mexico. Jackie B.
     
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