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OT--------Reloading the .40 S&W--------OT

Discussion in 'For Sale- Members only' started by skeeljc, Jul 13, 2010.

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  1. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    This thread started out with me looking to acquire some .40 S&W brass. I have found what I need for now.

    There is a lot of good information on reloading the .40 S&W cartridge in this thread. Thanks to everyone for their contribution.

    Jim Skeel
     
  2. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    I have plenty. Contact me via email to work out the details. Bob
     
  3. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Jim: Just a word of warning on loading the .40S&W. It is a good policy to fully resize the cases by running them completely thru either the Redding push thru die (way too expensive for what you get) or like we do, use a Lee taper crimping die which has a carbide sizing ring in it. We take the crimping sleeve parts out of the die and push the cases all the way thru the die body.(Lee makes a kit to do this now, and I suggested it to them) you will have to make a pusher that fits into the shell holder of the ram of your press, but you're a machinist so it won't be a problem. Mine took 20 minutes to make out of 12L14.

    What this does for you is it gets rid of the bulge at the bottom of the case caused by shooting them in unsupported chambers like Glocks have. I don't know if XD's do this too but it is a good cnance that some of the O/F brass you get will have beeen fired in a Glock. .40S&W is the only cartridge I know of that really suffers from this problem. The bulge is really visable after reloading and sizing with a normal sizing die. In fact I can pick the glock rounds out of "Remanufactured Ammo" sold at the gun shows quite easily.

    If the bulge is allowed to go thru 2-3 reloadings the case gets weak and there is the possibility of failure which in the case of the .40S&W happens at 35,000 psi. Unfortunately the .40S&W barrel is no bigger on the OD than the 9MM barrel, but it has got a bigger hole in the end, so obviously it is weaker.

    I have seen both of the Glocks which were blown up in .40S&W (I only know of 2)and both were as a result of case failure and semi hot reloads. This is the origin of the reason for the complete sizing fix.

    I use 5.0 gr of W231 with Rainier Copperplated 165 gr lead bullets for about 950FPS and a pleasant load to shoot IDPA with.

    Glocks also have large chambers. Mine has a chamber that is .005 larger than any of the other .40S&W pistols I have had. This large chamber is so the gun will function reliability with virtually any ammo. Obviously if you don't fully size the case, the base will have at least a .005, likely more like.010, bulge at the bottom after it is sized in a normal die. Obviously as the case is repeatedly fired the brass flows forward from that area and gets thinner. This is what causes the problem

    Hope some of this blather helps

    Randy
    [​IMG]
     
  4. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Randy,

    I appreciate the information on resizing. I have heard about chambers that do not fully support the case. I will have a look at my XDm. It has a loaded chamber indicator flag so maybe the chamber fully encloses the case.

    So how does your reloading sequence go? When do you deprime? Do you just do the full length size before putting the cases on your Dillon?

    Jim Skeel
     
  5. bridgetoofar

    bridgetoofar TS Member

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    You can also use a Lee "U" die. It's designed for this purpose, I have one on a Dillon 550 and it works just fine. I also load down a 165 plated bullet, but use HP38. The cases that come out of a Glock will be pretty obvious, as is the rectangular primer strike.
     
  6. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    Jim,

    I have a bunch of factory loaded 40 SW that I could be talked out of if you are interested.

    John
     
  7. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Jim: I do a bunch of cases at once, like 500-600 at a time. They go to a bucket with Lemishine in it first to clean any dirt and most of the tarnish off. Works real well in 10 minutes.

    Then I have a C&H Pistol Champ 4 station press, and I use a Lee Deprime die in one station and then the taper crimp die right next to it, so you pick a case put it the first station and drop the primer, then transfer to the second station and size. Then directly to the tumbler.

    I load in a C&H Auto Champ Progressive which I haven't totally worked the bugs out of yet. I still have the normal size die with prime punch just in case I missed one. Otherwise it works the same as any other progressive. 4 stations size/deprime, expand/prime/charge, seat bullet and taper crimp.

    The bugs I need to work out are the case feed reliability,It sucks. The case expander doesn't bell the cases enough for my tastes which makes the bullets hard to start, and it spills a few granules of powder every time you pull the handle because the expander plug is not fully in the case mouth when the charge is dropped. The errant powder ends up in the slide assembly and creates problems. I'm pretty sure I know why it is doing this I just have to call Dave at C&H and ask him what the accepted fix is.

    Also if I can't work out the bugs in that press I will sell it on Ebay and change it's name to Dillon. Their machinery is really hard to beat.

    I loaded 199 rounds last night (lost one primer) it took me 1 hour. I spent probably 20 minutes clearing jambs, so by all rights it should have been 300 rnds. Plus if I really had the press operation down and had multiple primer tubes preloaded it would be more like 400/hr.

    My Bro in law who just started reloading recently has a Dillion 550B, and he can do 400 per hour no sweat. Just because the machine is so well thought out and functions correctly.

    Randy
     
  8. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Randy,

    Thanks for the tip on bulged cases. I ordered a Lee taper crimp die.

    My Springfield XDm-40 has renewed my interest in pidtol shooting. Back when I was shooting a lot of IPSC I had a Dillon 550. I will buy another one as soon as I tire of loading on a single stage. My Dillon always worked well and their service is truely no BS.

    Jim Skeel
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Randy,

    You are using the wrong die to resize your brass. The taper crimp die is used after the bullet has been seated in the shell. It is the final step in the reloading process. Get a resizing die with the carbide ring to resize your brass. HMB
     
  10. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    HMB: Appreciate the concern,,, however the purpose of using the taper crimp die with the carbide ring is to remove the bulge at the bottom of the case, not to full length resize the cartridge. This action sizes the case down to about .423/.422 on the OD. You CANNOT push a case all the way thru a regular sizing die, it just won't go because the case head won't compress that far. The regular sizing die takes the case mouth to about .418 OD The case head is larger.

    I am still using a normal carbide sizing die at the first station in the progressive. Then the expander plug opens the case mouth to about .399 ID and flares the mouth. Then after the bullet is seated, the taper crimp die closes the case OD to .418/.419 to finish the loaded cartridge. The bullet is very secure at this point, and will not get pushed into the case. Overall length with the 165 Gr bullet is 1.125-1.135 don't go too much shorter that this or there can be pressure problems.

    This cartridge, more so than alot of others, needs close attention to details. It is a 35,000 PSI cartridge just like a 9MM but the barrels that house this cartridge are slightly weaker than a 9MM barrel for the same gun (explained above). For comparison the .45ACP runs at @ 21,000 PSI.

    Not to say it is a dangerous cartridge to load, you just need to be aware of the possible problems, and take steps to avoid them. Kind of like you do with any reloading. IE: do your homework, and pay attention. Every article I have read about reloading the .40S&W has had MANY cautions stated about avoiding the problems, also all of the reloading manuals caution against using reloaded cartridges in guns/chambers that do not fully support the round. This is the polite way of saying GLOCKS.

    I have shot several thousand rounds of reloads thru my G35 with no problems, and I have researched this cartridge extensively, and I pay attention to what I am doing to the near point of obsession. I am also a machinist with a background in production machining. All reloading is, is production machining with a different product coming out the end. This is part of the attraction for me.

    This paying attention idea goes for my Shotgun reloads too. I just started doing them earlier this year, and after 1000+ I figure I've got that figured out, but now that I am using a 366 instead of a 266, I once again have to pay close attention to what I'm doing so as not to double charge a case or do something stupid like dump powder and/or shot everywhere. Shotgun shells are alot more forgiving than Rifle or Pistol cartridges @ 10,000 PSI.

    I'm pretty into this hobby ?

    Randy


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Randy,

    Why is there a bulge at the bottom of the case? Is it because the shell is not supported by the chamber in that area? I do not like to reload cases that have bulges. They have been weakened.

    I don't understand why you can't get the neck expanded, simple adjustment, just lower the expanding rod a little. Also why are you spilling powder, is the case filled to the top? HMB
     
  12. JPSemper

    JPSemper Member

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    You might want to be on the look out on e-bay for a used Case Pro. I use one for all of my 40 cal and 38 Super cases.

    John Semprini
     
  13. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    HMB: The reason the cases have bulges at the bottom is because Glock chambers are made larger than other brands of guns. This is because Glocks are designed to feed just about any kind of ammo that will fit the gun, with the accent on reliability under adverse conditions. Also the area right at the back of the chamber is relieved to fit into the Glock breach face. Most guns are not designed this way. The case after it is completely resized is not weakened any significant amount, it becomes weakened when loaded several times without resizing the bulged area, the brass flows forward from that area and the case becomes weaker from the reduction in wall thickness. Also if the bulge is never resized eventually the brass flows enough so that the case fails anyway. These cases shouldn't get reloaded any more than 4-5 times under any circumstances. I figure one trimming is all they are good for. Plus there are plenty of them laying on the floor at most ranges. I picked up 320 last Sunday after our IDPA shoot and they were all new. I only shot 60-70 myself and they were all new too.

    As far as the neck expanding problem I called C&H yesterday and it turns out I have the expander plug for the 10mm case. The plug is about .100 shorter than the one for the .40S&W case. The correct part will allow me to adjust the expander die down and get the desired flare to hold the bullet in place before it is seated. I couldn't do this before because the expander plug was too far up inside the die body.

    Also it should be inside the case mouth before the powder is dropped, which will solve the powder spilling all over the shell plates.

    I was also fortunate to also get a carousel style case feeder magazine. Now I will only have to reload it every 100 rounds, which will speed up the process greatly. This machine should do 400 rounds an hour without me breaking a sweat. Which reminds me I need 4 more primer tubes so I can load everything at once, and not have to stop every hundred rounds to reload primers too.

    John: What exactly is a "Case-Pro"? Is it somekind of dedicated case sizing tool? Do you have a picture or a website I can go look at.

    We'll see how all this works out and I'll keep you all posted on my progress.

    Randy
     
  14. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    The glock chambers are the culprits.The 40 SW case is a straight case.The glocks have oversized chambers and when you go to size them the case holder prevents a full resize.Iload quite a few of these and there is a Co. in San Diego that has a machine that they invented for the 40 somewhat like what was discussed earlier.It pushes the case all the way through a sizing die.They are able to do about 10,000 peices an hour.If your close to San Diego it is a great deal.They only charge a penny a peice.9mm shot out of a Glock have the same problem.They also have a machine to fix that,but being a tapered case the process is different.They roll the bulge out of them.If you are close to San Diego it is the easiest and cheapest way.If you have to ship the brass then this whole story is in vain.I don't know if there are other processors in other parts of the country but I bet there is.The Co. in San Diego is A&M precision

    Darr
     
  15. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    One last thing I haven't mentioned before. is the device I pick up all of my brass with. At 60 the act of picking up breass by either bending over or crawling around on my knees was NOT going to work out. I found this doodad in an ad in Handloader Magazine and I have to tell you all, it is just too cool!!! Once you see it work you'll be sold, best $50 I've spent in a long time. They pickup shotgun shells too.

    Last Sunday I picked up about 500 pistol cartridge cases in about 20 minutes, this thing is definately worth the price of admission.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATFE9OhCxc Video of the device in action.

    http://www.thenutwizard.com/catalog.html the website to buy it..

    Randy
     
  16. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Randy,

    I received my Lee taper crimp die and their push through kit. Works well except now I need a RCBS Rock Chucker to use it in. Some cases are a little too much for my RCBS Junior.

    Thanks for all the help,

    Jim Skeel
     
  17. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Thanks to everyone for the education on loading the .40 S&W. Very helpfull information.

    Bob, (Smithy47) the Winchester brass you sold to me looks very good.

    Eric C. thanks for the range pick up brass - great price!

    Jim Skeel
     
  18. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Jim: something you can do to make the cases push thru easier, is use some of that Hornaday spray on case lube, even though you have a carbide die. It makes it much easier.

    Have you noticed how some of them are harder than others to push thru? I have got no answer for that issue, other than obviously they are .001 or so bigger than others.

    Like I said in my replies to your posts, 5.0gr of W231 works well with a 165 gr copperplated lead bullet. The bullets have been running about $42/500 at the gun shows lately. Prices on components are finally going down a little.

    Good luck

    Randy
     
  19. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Randy,

    Thanks for the tip on the spray lube. I did buy a used RCBS RC II on eBay. We will see how it works.

    I have loaded some 180 grain Laser Cast FP bullets with 5.0 grains of Hodgdon Universal Clays. The accuracy is good and the recoil is mild. I have not shot enough of them to see if they lead the barrel. They should be running around 925 fps.

    I have almost 2 pounds of W231 so I will be loading it too. It is probably 20 years old!

    Jim Skeel
     
  20. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Jim: you shouldn't have any issues with leading at that speed, but still keep an eye on it. The reason for the copperplated bullets is there is no leading period. I use Ranier 165grs from Midway or the same basic bullet from an outfit at our local gun show here in Ventura CA. I don't have a box left to tell you the name.

    Anyway, I saw you got a rockchucker. It's a good basic tool and everyone should have one. I've had mine since 78.

    I use my C&H press to do the break down of the cases because I can decap in one station and then push the case thru the sizing die on the station right next to the first one, so it's bang, bang, case into the tumbler.

    Another tip. I use some stuff called "lemishine" to clean cases. It is dishwasher soap ! available in the diswasher soap aisle at your local supermarket. A couple of teaspoons in a gallon of water takes all of the crap off cases in short order. If you just want to get the dirt off the outsides then 10 minutes is all you need, if you want to get the soot out of the inside too then overnite gets most of it out. If you really want to get anal you can take them out of the juice and use a Qtip to remove all of the soot.

    Then size them and then into the tumbler, and you have cases that look virtually new.. Just depends how far you want to go. I go all the way sometimes, sometimes I just do the lemishine and then size and load.

    The cool thing about the lemishine is that it is a good idea to clean the cases before you run them thru your dies so silica doesn't scratch the carbide rings. And yes silica will scratch carbide. The lemishine does that and removes tarnish too.

    Let me know how all this is working for you.

    Randy
     
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