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OT OT...LNG versus CNG...OT OT

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mrskeet410, Sep 4, 2008.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    LNG is Liquefied Natural Gas. I've heard of that. Liquefying natural gas isn't simple, and it's difficult to store, even harder to transport.

    But what is CNG? How is it different from LNG?
     
  2. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Sorry for the double posting. Please use this thread.
     
  3. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    It's "compressed natural gas" and it is stored at high pressure.




    Jim
     
  4. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Found this at the link above. It doesn't address the practical differences between them.

    Compressed Natural Gas
    To provide adequate driving range, CNG must be stored onboard a vehicle in tanks at high pressure—up to 3,600 pounds per square inch. A CNG-powered vehicle gets about the same fuel economy as a conventional gasoline vehicle on a gasoline gallon equivalent (GGE) basis. A GGE is the amount of alternative fuel that contains the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. A GGE equals about 5.7 lb (2.6 kg) of CNG.


    Liquefied Natural Gas
    To store more energy onboard a vehicle in a smaller volume, natural gas can be liquefied. To produce LNG, natural gas is purified and condensed into liquid by cooling to -260°F (-162°C). At atmospheric pressure, LNG occupies only 1/600 the volume of natural gas in vapor form. A GGE equals about 1.5 gallons of LNG. Because it must be kept at such cold temperatures, LNG is stored in double-wall, vacuum-insulated pressure vessels. LNG fuel systems typically are only used with heavy-duty vehicles.
     
  5. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I sold parst and service to our local natural gas company for a few years they altered their small vehicles to burn naturla gas. It was a short lived program as it created many driveability and starting problems as well as short range. They gave up on the progarm and converted back to gasoline.
     
  6. Rem870TB

    Rem870TB Active Member

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    Been there, drove that (CNG)

    "I sold parst and service to our local natural gas company for a few years they altered their small vehicles to burn naturla gas. It was a short lived program as it created many driveability and starting problems as well as short range."

    AXACTLY!!!!

    The petroleum exploration/production operation was part of a utility company 20 years ago.

    They were a cheap outfit and we had K Cars as company vehicles. Being a gas company, they decided they would "save" more money and convert these to CNG.

    We suffered with these for several years, as Bruce has said, I can personallty say there were serious driveablity issues.

    The range was crippling, about 100 miles, tops on the CNG tank and most of our business trips are 3 to 5 times that in a day. You could switch to gasoline but it was tough to get them to run well on one or both fuels.

    The tanks were very heavy steel, took most of the trunk and made those small, light vehiles ride and handle poorly.

    The decompression of running the tank from 3,000 psi to close to atmospheric pressure in an hour produced a chilling effect on the tank which used to result in condensation. Everything in the trunk would get damp and metal would rust.

    Fortunately, the operation was sold to a very decent outfit and we can chose our own vehicles and there's no CNG.

    Mark me down as not likeing CNG as a vehicle fuel.
     
  7. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Anybody have any idea how they get CNG to the fueling stations? I can think of a couple of possibilities. Neither sounds good.

    Local utility pipeline to station, then compress to CNG at the station? Are the local lines adequate to do that? How complicated and expensive is it to put in the equipment to convert natural gas from such a line to CNG? And if there is not a gas-line past your local station?

    LNG carried to fueling station on a truck, then converted to CNG at the station?

    I like the idea of natural gas from USA to foreign oil. But remember when we thought corn-based ethanol sounded better than foreign oil? It still sounds good.
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I put this in the other thread but here it is again.

    Honda has a CNG car in their 2008 line. It is the only factory CNG car.

    The Phillips device will fill your tank overnight from your house connection and costs 3 Thousand bucks. they now state 200 mile range, and there are probably 7 or 8 commercial filling stations in that range for me (NE Wis).

    What I have read says no power difference.

    here in salt country I would be very concerned about the rust issue, but there may be new tech for that.

    I found most of this info using Yahoo seach.

    I'm sure there is more info out there.

    HM
     
  9. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes, one other thing. If a whole bunch of people start using CNG for vehicles, I am sure my home heating would cost more. And the state would be unhappy about lost gas tax revenue and go after it.

    So stay away from it.

    HM
     
  10. M-16

    M-16 TS Member

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    CNG powered vehicals pro's and con's I worked on CNG systems through the 80's we did everything from converting compressing stations to filling stations. Vehicals [80's]then needed a dual distribitor didn't work good on both so you adj. it to one, but todays vehicals work great due to you can chage timing with the computor. CNG is equal to 130 octane so high compression engines love it. Actually diesels work great but they need spark plug system added$$ Range a 18 dia"*4'L tank gave a 80's 350 chevy about 50 miles. So space is a big factor, but if your vehical does short trips and returns to base/ filling location not bad. Tanks today are aluminum or fiber/ not heavy for 3000#
    PRO's cost cheaper per gallon of gas, Clean burning, exhaust lasts lot longer, spark plugs/ oil clean and last longer, high compression engines love it, new engines convert timing changes well and CNG made in the USA.
    CON's short range, longer ranges uses more storage space, compressors expensive, storage tanks for quick fill expensive, and limited filling stations
    There was a lower pressure system that used a 60 gallon tank max pressure 300# that would work great if you had a well +300# and did not go far and fill up a lot
     
  11. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    The benefit is the low price. See the link above. It's not as cheap everywhere, but the current price in Utah is around $0.80 per gallon equivalent of gasoline. Also, I have read that the factory CNG cars have solved many of the drivability issues, but still have a range of only 200-250 miles.

    Shoot well and often,

    Mark.
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Ford made a few different models of CNG vehicles over the past decade or so. I believe they are still available for fleet sales, but not through regular retail channels. The tanks are large and expensive and usually require testing or replacement at around the ten year mark. Sooner if there has been impact or other damage. The biggest issue is fuel supply. If a fleet has made arrangements to supply it's own vehicles, the problem is solved. I'm sure that CNG would actually go up in price if the demand were to increase by a significant amount. Look what happened to corn based ethanol. Corn prices went through the roof.
     
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