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OT New Law 15% (E-15) Ethanol Fuel Mandatory

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by zeroed4x, Oct 18, 2010.

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  1. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/BF822DDBEC29C0DC852577BB005BAC0F



    More B.S. from Washington.


    Soon you will have no choice but to use the new mandated E15 15% Ethanol fuel.
    Its more expensive than the 10% we are forced to use now.
    It has a huge list of negative effects including eating the rubber seals out of your in tank fuel pump as well as many others.


    Vehicle warranties do not cover the damage caused by these fuels, they even state that using fuel with more than 10% will void your warranty.


    Vehicles also do not obtain the same mileage with this type of fuel.


    The cost of anything that is delivered will go up, like your groceries etc.


    Enjoy compliments of the EPA S#it bags in Washington.
  2. Capt_ed

    Capt_ed Member

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    They just started putting Ethanol in the regular gas up here in Canada. This past summer I bought 25,000 litres to run in the outboards at the fishing Lodge that I run. It was all my engineer could do to keep the outboards running half assed all summer. Our premium fuel is exempt so far but what a $hit pile of grief we had over this. Our Honda representative told us there would be no issues using the Ethanol and now Honda is rebuilding our fuel systems this winter.
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yet another example of the government using phony baloney science to justify their preconceived goals. E10 fuel is already causing more pollution in most vehicles, and now it's going to get even worse. The break point for producing more pollution than straight gasoline is at 3.8% less fuel economy. Under that amount, the vehicle produces less pollution, just as the government claims. If a vehicle gets 3.8% less fuel economy or worse, it makes significantly MORE pollution than with straight gasoline. So if you've noticed a 5% or even 10% drop in your fuel economy, and many do, you're actually making a lot more pollution.

    The EPA does not care about this. I believe the reason is they have their marching orders, and that this is one way to drive older vehicles out of existence without actually passing unpopular legislation to do so. These older vehicles will have everything from poor fuel mileage, to not being able to pass pollution inspections, damage to pollution systems (early catalytic converters especially will burn out), fuel pump and other fuel system damage, and up to severe engine damage.

    On top of this is the increased cost of producing ethanol in the first place. It takes more than a gallon of fuel to make a gallon of ethanol. This is because ethanol is not pumped out of the ground. It is grown. That requires a lot of machinery. Add to that fertilizer made from fuel byproducts, and land diverted from growing food and animal feed. So the costs of more expensive food have to be added. Mexico has been very critical of ethanol based fuel because of what it will do to the price of corn, which is a major staple in Mexico. (My counter to that is if Mexico wants cheaper corn, then they ought to start selling us lots of cheaper oil.)

    The link has some interesting info.
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Since it takes more petroleum energy to make ethanol than the return energy accomplished, it looks like the winners here are the Arabs, Chavez, and Archer Daniels Midland.

    HM
  5. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Halfmile, add the farmers to that list also.

    13 billion total corn crop and we use 4.7 billion for ethanol.

    Corn is nearly $5 now and without the ethanol demand, we'd have $2 corn.
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Active Member

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    While what's being said about fuel mileage with ethanol is right, somebody needs to read the news article better:<UL><LI>the law only ALLOWS the commercial production and sale of E15; it doesn't MANDATE it<li>the USE of E15 is allowed, not mandated<LI>few gas retailers are expected to sell E15 for the foreseeable future<LI>sale of E10 will continue for the foreseeable future<LI>pumps will be labeled to allow the proper choice<LI>post 2007 vehicles are now exempted and pre-2000 vehicles have yet to be studied on E15</ul>

    It's probably coming, but not tomorrow.

    <I>http://eponline.com/articles/2010/10/15/epa-oks-sale-of-15-ethanol-fuel-in-model-years-2007-and-newer.aspx</I>

    MK
  7. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    There are still some stations that sell fuel without ethanol and if you use a boat motor and lawn tools you better find them as they will be ruined by the ethanol. Before I retired a couple of months ago I helped run a rental store as well as sporting goods and we were having a lot of trouble with our gas powered equipment. We received a bulletin from some of the power tool companies about ethanol usage. Just don't make sense. Jackie B.
  8. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what planet you guys are from but here in Iowa every gas station I've been to still has pumps that are NOT Ethanol blend. If no one buys it would there be a market for it??????????

    Just for the record I've used the 10% blend since its came out and have had no problems in my vehicles, lawn mowers, weed eaters, etc. etc.
  9. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    I heard or read awhile ago where a number of stations tested were in excess of 10% Ethanol content as stated on the pumps (Ohio).

    IMO its a conspiracy to make us drive roller skates whether we want to or not.



    Regards....Gerald
  10. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    I found a station on an Indian Reservation that sells the non-Ethanol gas. It's all I use in my Yamaha outboard. The station is about 70 miles from my house so I fill up my boat and truck every time I go by. It's the same price as all the other regular gas.

    Tomas
  11. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Last time I checked, corn is edible cude oil is not! It makes no sense to turn food products into auto fuel.

    Since 10% is what we have to buy here in my state, I've lost 2-3 miles to the gallon. Car's are maintained and my driving style hasn't changed, so it has to be the fuel.
  12. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Active Member

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    <blockquote><I>"Last time I checked, corn is edible cude oil is not! It makes no sense to turn food products into auto fuel."</i></blockquote>No, it doesn't...and distilling ethanol from food crops is also old technology. It was developed because the alcohol potential of corn is well known and the technology already roughed in.

    Now the technology is evolving and the industry is rapidly turning to cellulosic ethanol production: production of ethanol from non-food plants and crops, agricultural waste, and wood waste and by-products. Not only is the supply of these sources renewable but the process of producing the necessary heat relies on biomass (fermentation) instead of fossil fuels. South American and Asian countries have been producing alcohol this way for years and already have a jump on the technology.

    Lots of info on Google: <I>cellulosic ethanol</I>

    MK
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    likes-to-shoot, Oregon passed a law here that once local ethanol production reached a certain point, all gas stations would have to sell E10 in place of straight gasoline. Oregon then blew huge amounts of money subsidizing a private ethanol plant to achieve this goal. After the goal was met, the E10 requirement kicked in. Then shortly afterwards the plant went bankrupt because gasoline prices fell. But the E10 requirement, having been met, was never taken away. Note that this is statewide.

    Prior to that, we had E10 mandated in the greater Portland area courtesy of the Oregon DEQ (Dept of Environmental Quality) for use in the winter months. So those of us in the area well knew how crappy E10 was.

    One thing I quickly found was to never top off the tank on seldom used vehicles. My pickup truck probably gets only an average of 25 miles a month use. I use it mainly for hauling heavy materials or hauling yard debris. E10 would break down and become a very dark amber brown mess and the truck would run like crap. Literally you could not drive it around the block. I keep it almost empty now, and add fresh E10 each time I drive it. Vehicles that are driven more often do not have this problem.

    And, if you get mandated to use E10 fuel, the first thing you want to do on an older vehicle is install a clear fuel filter before the carb. The ethanol will clean your gas tank of a lot of crud. If gasoline has made a varnish in the tank, this can peel off in flakes or sheets and clog up the carb. It's also what's probably causing the nasty dark fuel color in my pickup.
  14. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Active Member

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    No choice here in the east, it all contains ethanol. They use the "splash" method to mix it so some contains more than the 10%. Mileage on the vehicles I had before the changeover all dropped 10% or more in mileage so where is the savings in pollution or use of gasoline? EPA has WAAAY too much power over us.
  15. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Here in Iowa you can't hardly look anywhere without seeing a Ethanol plant and most of our service stations have three grades on each pump, Ethanol blend (10%), Regular grade and Premium grade. Others have basicly the same with some more premium grade choices. There are even producing Soy Diesel in various places in the state.

    In all fairness I've never tried to find out what gas milage would be with regular gas since Ethanol blend had come out. One thing I do like about it is in the Winter you don't have to worry about freezing fuel lines.

    Bill
  16. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Around here all the brands have Super grade with no ethanol. Costs enought to negate any efficiency savings.

    We do have a shell dealer with "all-gas" gasoline.

    If you have a motorcycle with a plastic tan you shouln't use eth, same for saws and weed eaters.

    HM
  17. i_shoot

    i_shoot Member

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    I have been using this in everything I own that runs on gas especially my 2 stroke engines. It's in the boating section at Wally World. $9 for 8 ozs. treats 128 gallons of gas.

    It's good stuff,
    i_shoot
  18. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Active Member

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    If this keeps up, there won't be enough farmland to grow enough crop to supply the ethenol and bio-diesel demand.
  19. TX-MX

    TX-MX TS Member

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    I have taken many road trips and compared my gas mileage. While there are variables like wind, etc, my late model Chevy 1/2 ton gets about 1.5 mpg better mileage and accelerates much better on straight gas than it does on the ethanol blend.

    In my neck of the woods our corn is very heavily irrigated at the cost of rapidly dropping water tables. The amount of water that goes into growing corn to be used for ethanol production is mind boggling. We are mining over 80% of our region's water supply (household use is less than 10%) to turn into ethanol. When the housewife can't get water out of her kitchen faucet, maybe we will stop this foolishness, but not before, I fear.
  20. Luvs2shoot

    Luvs2shoot Active Member

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    Well, we have 2 choices, either make cars run on ethanol/alcohol properly, or drill more in the U.S. or we will forever be at the mercy of the Saudis and South Americans.

    By the way don't worry about producing enough grain, if corn would consistently stay at $5.00 or more per bushel, millions of acres would likely come out of the CRP program, or not be put back in when a land owner's contract is done. For any of you thinking farmers are making a killing at $5.00 per bushel corn, you better check the investment that farmers have in their crop. You can't touch a new combine with the heads for less than $250,000.00 and it gets used about 4 to 5 weeks out of the year. Check seed and fertilizer prices too. Check the personal property tax rates in your county. Farming is not the gravy train that some may think it is.

    As far as I am concerned lets grow our fuel and say pi$$ off to the Saudis and Venezuelans. If we can put a man on the moon, somebody ought to be able to make an engine run on some form of alcohol fuel mix. What do those top fuel cars run on? Too bad Werner Von Braun isn't still alive, he could have figured it out.

    John
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