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OT:Implosion of the Republican party

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by wireguy, Feb 20, 2008.

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  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    For all practical purposes the Republican party simply no longer exists. While the Democrat party still stands for more taxes, more government, and more control of our lives, the Republican party stands for getting re-elected. Period.
    This from Robert Novak: "House Republicans showed how much they really care about losing their fiscal responsibility brand when they rejected Rep. Jeff Flake (Ariz.), the leading crusader against earmarks, for a vacancy on the House Appropriations Committee. They picked Rep. Jo Bonner (Ala.), a former House staffer and a consistent supporter of earmarks. Flake's goose was cooked earlier when the House Republican Conference did not unilaterally impose a moratorium on earmarks."
    We can curse the Republicans for their lack of conservative ideology, but they are what they are because that's what the American people want, and once again the enemy is us.
     
  2. piranha2

    piranha2 TS Member

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    The Republican Party does in fact exist. It just isn't conservative anymore. We let it get that way. Being conservative ain't PC. Where the hell is Reagan when you need him? Oh yeah, I forgot.
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    America was a very different place when Reagan got elected.


    It ain't that place anymore.



    The GOP understands that principles mean nothing, if you can't get (and stay) elected on them. Holding power is what matters to the political class. If they can get power and keep it while espousing conservative ideas, the GOP will be all over it. If they can't...they won't.


    Once those ideas fall out of favor with the majority ("Gimmee a mortgage bailout!"), the GOP will be done with them.


    The regal statue of Ronald Reagan, it turns out, has feet of clay.

    Hillary Clinton's wrecking ball will take it down soon enough.
     
  4. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    The republicans have little chance of holding on to thw White House. Charismatic and republican canidate is an oxymoron. McCain is to much of a democrat, to old and to short to run and win againist Obama.
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    "The founding fathers created a new form of government, called a Republic. It is also known as representative government.
    I would ask every Republican Party member to """study""" the "principles" our government was founded on, and discover for yourselves, how far we have strayed from the principles necessary to maintain and preserve our Republic.
    (1) Freedom of the person. Slavery, serfdom, and all forms of human bondage must disappear.
    (2) Freedom of the mind. Unless a free people are educated--- taught to think "intelligently" and plan wisely--- freedom usually does more harm than good.
    (3) The reign of law. Liberty can be enjoyed only when the will and whims of human rulers are replaced by legislative enactment's in accordance with accepted fundamental law.
    (4) Freedom of speech. Representative government is unthinkable without freedom of all forms of human expression for human aspirations and opinions.
    (5) Security of property. No government can long endure if it fails to provide for the right to enjoy personal property in some form. Man craves the right to use, control, bestow, sell, lease, and bequeath his personal property.
    (6) The right of petition. Representative government assumes the right of citizens to be heard. The privilege of petition is inherent in free citizenship.
    (7) The right to rule. It is not enough to be heard; the power of petition must progress to the actual management of the government.
    (8) Universal suffrage. Representative government presupposes an intelligent, efficient, and universal electorate. The character of such a government will ever be determined by the character and caliber of those who compose it. As civilization progresses, suffrage, while remaining universal for both sexes, will be effectively modified, regrouped, and otherwise differentiated.
    (9) Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling office holders and public servants.
    (10) Intelligent and trained representation. The survival of the United States of America is dependent on successful representative government.; and that is conditioned upon the practice of electing to public offices only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, morally and morally fit. Only by such provisions can government of the people, by the people, and for the people be preserved.
    Democrats want to convert our Republic into a socialist government by creating government programs that make the American people dependent on the government for their needs, Lately, far to many so-called republicans, are far too willing to co-operate with the democrats. Programs, such as, welfare, subsidized housing, food stamps, Social Security and Medicare have done nothing to make our Republic stronger. In fact they weaken the motivation of the American people to be all they can be. Racism and class warfare are still being perpetrated by the democrats, further weakening our Republic, while moderate republicans are too weak in courage and character to oppose these phony socialist ideas. Do you so-called republicans(?) realize the absolute disgust that real Americans have for you and your total lack of political ethics? It is time to take our Republic back from the disaster that democrat socialism will inflict on the American people.
    Harry G. Jones Modesto, CA."

    Hap
     
  6. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Trappy, the superficial trappings in which any culture lives may change, but the fundamental values that make a culture successful, that is, free and prosperous, never change. Those values are eternal. When they are followed, success is the usual result. When they are abandonded, as America has been doing for the last 40 years, the benefits that were accrued when those fundamental values were adhered to, begin to dissapear. Loss of personal freedom, loss of ability to make an honest living, having the benefits of one's labor stolen from him (her), layers and layers of government roadblocks to your endeavours to prosper take the place of liberty and personal initiative. You say that America can never be what it was, but that is not true. America cannot go back to wringer washing machines and pedal driven sewing machines but America CAN continue to adhere to the VALUES that made us successful in the first place - hard work, personal responsibility, personal initiative, the right to start and operate a business without undue government intereference, the right to keep or dispose of one's income as one sees fit. Those fundamental values are what they are because they simply work. Mankind is at it's best when you give people much freedom, and make it clear that they are responsible for their own well being, that they are FREE to do the best for themselves that they can, free to keep the profits from their labor, but there aren't going to be any government safety nets. Under those circumstances the vast majority of people will rise to the challenge and be free, strong, and self sufficient. When you destroy those fundamental values however, the reverse occurs. People become lazy, slothful, inneficent, lawless, dependent. If you think I'm wrong take a hard look at England. They are years ahead of our own race to universal, government mandated mediocrity. Once the empire that the sun never set on, today England is a universal welfare state of dependent people who are under the watchful eye of government cameras 24/7, so regulated by overreaching government that if they so much as defend themselves against violent criminal assault, the state will bring charges against and prosecute them.
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    This applies to both parties.
     
  8. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I fear for your great nation and for "democracy" on our planet....the Hilary/Obama/Gore socialists will surely cause it's demise....BIG BROTHER will for damn sure be watching you and forcing you to abandom many things and values you hold dear to your heart if they get elected....
     
  9. DJM

    DJM Member

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    In spite of the rich & upper middle class pursuing all legal avenues to reduce their tax liability the pie chart still shows they pay some 90% of Fed income tax while the lower 50% pay near 0.
     
  10. CharlesR1100

    CharlesR1100 TS Member

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    The Republicans do not have a political party any more. They have a cult.

    Political cults are the result of an implosion. This cult has few but vocal members who know everything, follow the cult line, do not want change, and tell every one else what is wrong with them. Political cults would rather think they are right than be elected. Rush is a republican cult leader.

    The republican cult needs a serious, major flooding to remove its negative elements.

    It is about to get one.
     
  11. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait to see how the democrats turn the economy around by raising taxes, taking the profits from big business (Hillary) and increasing the taxes on "big business" (Barrack). That oughta make things work.
     
  12. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    The Republican Party will survive. IMO, John McCain will try and bring more of the “right wing” into the fold but they may not rally behind him. Parties do fracture at times.


    John McCain has strong appeal to moderates and independents and what he may loose on the right, he will pick up from moderates and independents.


    The “right wing” has had their influence for a long time. Nothing lasts forever. The “right wing” needs to find a new message, new candidates and prepare for the congressional elections in two years. They also need to figure out where their votes will come from. If they fail to support moderates, why do they think that moderats will support them?


    The Democrats may be able to engineer a landslide and sweep may senators and representatives into office. "Veto proof" majorities in the House and Senate may be a big reach but may not be out of the realm of possibilities. Imagine Barack Obama as commander in chief and the Democrats in control of Congress and, eventually, the Supreme Court. That's when the gloves will come off. I hope that this does not occur.


    As we get past the nominations and into the general election, the positions of the two parties IMO will be quite different. To me, the position or “plank” in a party’s platform is what is really important.


    Some key issues are:


    • Stay the course in Iraq or pull the troops out soon.


    • Size of the military and replacement of aging hardware.


    • Immigration.


    • Abortion


    • Gay marriage


    • Stem cell research.


    • Health insurance


    • Bush tax cuts.


    • Tax rates


    • Free trade


    This election to me will contain many stark and costly differences. Simple slogans like “Change we can believe in” may not cut it in face to face debates.


    Maybe the Republicans need a slogan like "Its the Issues That Count!"


    I will support whatever the American people decide on and I hope that it is the Republican position on most issues. Whatever the outcome, we will survive.



    Whoever the next president is, I don’t think that there are many rabbits left in the hat.


    Ed Ward
     
  13. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    I thank God the American people can still stand up and be counted.

    Let us all hope we never lose the right to (VOTE).

    How many people have you talked to that say they don't vote.
    Most reply my vote will not make any deference anyway.Big money is what puts them in office.

    For the Republican party,they drank their own poison.

    Bocephas
     
  14. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Deckart, we are in agreement. You may have mis-understood my point. Everything you said about the republican party is correct. They have become as much like the dems as the dems themselves, because that is the easy way, to pander to the worst in people instead of encouraging their best and offering them the freedom to make it happen. The repubs no longer have a value system based in offering freedom and the self-sufficiency that must go with it. That's what I meant when I said all they stand for is getting re-elected. Instead of offering the American people a way to increase their wealth through hard work and diligence and resourcefulness, they now simply offer them something for nothing, same as the dems. How much easyer it is to get re-elected offering something for nothing than offering freedom and responsibility.
    As far as the rich taking un-fair advantage of the tax system, the graduated income tax system we have today is an abomination that should never have been started in the first place. If we didn't have an income tax, there would be no taking advantage of it. There are certain things that should never be taxed in a free country. Your income, anything that goes down your throat, and your home are among them. If we had a state sales tax and NO federal taxes, with the revenues going UP to the feds instead of from the feds DOWN to the states, the states would have a vested interest in not giving the feds one penny more than required, which would reverse the power influence and limit the power of the federal government. Instead the states have become welfare recipients dependent on federal dollars. If all revenues were raised via a sales tax, then people would be free to amass capital by living cheaply as possible. That would give poor people the opportunity to save capital so they could buy a home, start a business, go to college, or whatever they wanted to do to better themselves. Instead we tax people at the bottom of the middle class who are barely getting by, and those taxes are the difference between them being able to better themselves, and remaining stuck where they are, never able to afford to purchase tax shelter because the money required gets siphoned off by the government. A lot of people who are on welfare today would be productive citizens if they could keep the money they earn or spend it as they see fit. If they could keep their earnings they would make a lot more money than being on welfare, and that is what we should be encouraging. Instead we encourage them not to try because the government is going to confiscate such a large percentage of their earnings that there is no reason to struggle. Welfare makes more sense to these people, and our income tax system discourages people from struggling to better themselves through hard work, dilligence and resourcefulness. Exactly the oppositte of what is good for the people, the culture, and the nation - and the republicans no longer stand for freedom, responsibility, and self determination.
     
  15. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    I live in an area that should be renamed WELFARE CENTRAL. Almost EVERYONE in my county is on some kind of gov't dole. This place would dry up if it were'nt for welfare and all the business's here DEPEND on it. Makes me want to puke to go the grocery store and stand in line behind welfare bums buying 20 cases of soft drinks with food stamps to take out and sell for dope money. Call me old fashioned but who says everyone is entitled to be rich or to not have to work for a living? Republicans and dems alike perpetuate this thinking-Lord help us all.
     
  16. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Either one would be a big improvement over what we have now. I agree there is room for debate. The problem I see with the flat tax is it is so easy to raise the percentage. Once the percentage on sales tax goes above a reasonable point people will begin cheating the system. I'm not talking about the tiny percentage who will anyway, I'm talking about people who would pay the tax if it was perceived by them as reasonable. In either case the money should not be going to the feds. It should be collected by the states and let the feds be the beggars. That might put a major crimp in earmarks and other pork spending.
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As the Democrats shift further and further left, the Republicans are being sucked into the vacuum. The GOP has been getting more and more liberal in the last two decades. McCain is more liberal than most Democratic politicians were in the 1960's and even into the 1970's. If you look at fiscal policies, it's amazing how similar Reagan and JFK were. In fact, JFK is closer to today's Republicans than today's Democrats.
     
  18. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    ...meanwhile, the party "faithful" are sitting around in their private enclaves prattling about arcana such as the flat tax...this is part of the reason why the train is leaving without you...
     
  19. I WON

    I WON TS Member

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    Which party supports the individuals right to own guns ?
     
  20. ATF Agent

    ATF Agent TS Member

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    Good post Hap. While there are deserving people who genuinely need temporary help, there are more who simply look to get whatever they can for free.

    Some of them post here regularly...
     
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