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OT: How long for GM, Ford and Chrysler?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Tron, Aug 1, 2008.

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  1. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    How long can they sustain such losses? GM just announced a 15+ billion loss, Ford nearly 9 billion and Chrysler seems to be in the same predicament.

    I just wonder how this is going to play out.
     
  2. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    Not to worry, government won't let them sink. Too bad them invested all their time and energy and expected profits in SUV's and Trucks. Gas price took that market and they are way behind in the smaller car market and have a lot of ground to catch up with the rest of the world. Of course there is a much smaller profit margin in those cars so they are going to hit some very hard times while they get through this. They will survive but it's going to be ugly for it's employees.
     
  3. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    I believe we will have just one America car company, 1 of the big 3 will disappear, the remaining 2 will merge. Production will cease in N. America. All that will be left is dealerships. Remember denile is not a river in Egypt. This is a case of 2 little 2 late. One will be gone within a year.

    Lou
     
  4. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    "The ONLY bright side is, so we can get rid of the union"

    MX-8B, I take it that you have never been a union member.
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Tron:


    Ford recently announced the replacement vehicles for the Louisville Assembly Plant once Explorer production is halted next year. No specific vehicle was declared but the possible vehicles included the European version of the Focus, a small Volvo derived model and some really small others. What struck me is that these vehicles were priced in the $25,000 - $40,000 range.


    I think that Ford will have a difficult time with small cars priced higher than a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry.


    Ford's dilemma, along with GM and Chrysler, is how to make money on small cars in the US market. They had large margins of their $30,000 plus Explorers and large trucks. Now they are going to have to compete with Honda and Toyota in the market segment that Honda and Toyota dominate. IMO, it will be difficult for Ford to become profitable for a long time.


    To make matters worse for GM, Ford and Chrysler, Kia and Hyundai keep improving their product offerings and are offering a 100,000 warranty.


    I hope GM, Ford and Chrysler can make it.


    Ed Ward
     
  6. Beretta Blue

    Beretta Blue TS Member

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    Ford and GM have large plants overseas that do well. Some years ago the Family toured Germany, Austria Northern Itally and England. I rented a Ford "Granada" station wagon. It had a 4 cylinder engine that looked too small to power some of the commercial riding lawn mowers I see around here..........ANYWAY......The car with 5 adults and six suitcases ran very well and got 38 MPG. I've been told that Fords smallest car in Europe uses a 3 cyl. diesiel and gets about 45 MPG. The technology exists in the big 3......Just not here in the US.
     
  7. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Beretta Blue-you hit the nail on the head--GM & Ford make great cars in Europe--get them here-- I would love a diesel station wagon that gets 45mpg, stop the fluff & puff Detroit--you worked it out for your overseas customers, how about us?

    Lou
     
  8. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I suspect GM will file chapter 11. Then do away with all their retirement costs. Which will be picked up by the taxpayers at about 10 cents on the dollar. Then Ford and Chrysler will follow suit. And they will all be back in business with the retirement horse collar removed.
     
  9. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    635G,

    The EPA regs here are much stricter than in Europe so don't look for those diesels here until they can pass EPA regs.


    Eric
     
  10. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I think Chrysler will fold first. It was bought by an investment group..
     
  11. Rem870TB

    Rem870TB Active Member

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    "How long for GM, Ford and Chrysler?"

    I remember they had a "wake up call" in the 1973 oil shortage.

    I remember some of their answers; the Pinto, Maverick, Vega....etc., none of which went on to be classics and have largely been forgotten.

    In the following 35 years, other fuel scares and shortages followed periodically but memories seemed short, customer memory was short too (many of us voted with our wallets and kept buying the vehicles with lower fuel ecconomy) and the result was GM, Ford and Chrysler did not concentrate on developing advanced, fuel efficient cars to challenge the products from other parts of the world.

    Not to say they can't do it, but to me, it doesn't seem to have been a priority and now they are seeing the result.

    I could see this coming and I'm no great intellect or financial whiz, so I don't understand why those running GM, Ford and Chrysler missed or ignored it.
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The handwriting has been on the wall for decades, they just could'nt understand the language. Style has been more important than function for way too long. Their global counterparts can build efficient and functional vehicles overseas. They need to import some of the technology back home where it belongs. The EPA regulations and CARB (California AH's Restrict Business) have made it difficult for some to comply with economy and air standards. I'd like to see those diesels and small powerplants in vehicles in the states, but they would be hard to clean up to standards, but NOT impossible.
     
  13. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    All the car companies are going through a slow time now. The main reason GM, Ford, and Chrysler are especially having trouble is the overhead. Even when things are slow they are still sending out checks every week to people who haven't set foot inside a company building in 30 years.

    Hundreds of thousands of people are receiving benefits and pensions from the Big 3 who haven't work there in years.

    I read an article in a fiancial paper once that if GM had taken the money they spent on health care in the 90s and purchased Toyota stock with that money instead, they could of owned that company.

    Blame GM, Ford, Chrysler for not properly funding their pensions and benefits package if you want, but our government is doing the same thing. Look at social security, pensions, etc... We should learn from what is happening to them but we won't.

    The lesson is you can't pay people for not working. You might not like that lesson but it is one that you or someone else will have to learn.
     
  14. wdr-NY

    wdr-NY TS Member

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    Walrus,
    Good suggestion on "Who killed the electric car?" The film is less than impartial to the oil companies but it raises some interesting questions about the auto markets in the U.S. and whether or not prices, R&D and innovation are truly driven by market factors.

    I agree with an earlier poster that suggested American innovation will find a way to prevail.

    Walker
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bisi- It is both unfair and inaccurate to blame Unions for all of the problems. And, it is unfair and inaccurate for Unions to not accept some of the blame for the problems.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. oz

    oz Active Member

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    It's the stock market thieves (speculators) robbing everyone. they speculate on how much they can get for a product (oil) and it's like shooting fish in a barrel. we have to have oil & gas to work & live. we have to pay what they decide. unfortunatly we are not only in a recession we will be in a 1928 depression very soon and they the speculators can jump out the windows again. oz
     
  17. alf174

    alf174 Member

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    <i>I suspect GM will file chapter 11. Then do away with all their retirement costs. Which will be picked up by the taxpayers at about 10 cents on the dollar. Then Ford and Chrysler will follow suit. And they will all be back in business with the retirement horse collar removed.</i>

    Some of the airlines tried to do this a few years back, Congress would not let them. GM has cash on hand, very unlikely they would let someone (court appointed) else manage it.
     
  18. Beretta Blue

    Beretta Blue TS Member

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    Has anyone noticed those little articals buried on about page 6 in your news paper? "Highway tax revinues falling." Or "Fed highway funding shortage leads to failing infrastucture."
    The government is all about tax revinue, a fuel efficient car, means less and in some cases MUCH less highway tax revinue. A car that gets 40-50 MPG cuts the tax reciepts by more than half. I suggest that the Fed. is in many ways only paid lip service to high mileage vehicals.
    The people we send to Washington are constantly surrounded by lobbyist......The elected individuals may go to our capital with lofty ideals but lose their collective way very soon and the result? Meaningful legislation never gets done.
     
  19. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Pat Ireland, where in my post did I blame the unions?
     
  20. Loyac

    Loyac Member

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    Grunt is correct... Last year Daimler Benz sold Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management of New York, a private equity firm that specializes in restructuring troubled companies. They'll try to make Chrysler profitable again, then break it apart and sell it. John
     
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