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OT: Home Sale Punch List?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by 635 G, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Tell your son's attorney, to tell the other persons attorney, if the buyer doesn't close he is violation of the contract & has to surrender his down payment. These are very petty issues, IMHO they are not close enough to be cause to back out of the contract.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The "punch list" is not uncommon. A typical contract is usually subject to a final inspection to make sure everything is working correctly. Your son has several options. Hold fast, repair nothing and hope the contract does not fall. Agree to do some of the things or agree to do all of the things. Any negotiations should be completed prior to sitting down at the closing table.

    It is not difficult for either party to walk prior to closing. The terms of the contract are written on paper but the actual contract is the agreement between the grantor and grantee. The words on the paper are only a description of the actual agreement (contract).

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Should have been addressed during or immediately after the buyer's mechanical inspection, and should have been mutually agreed to between the buyer and seller (to either fix, adjust the price, or ignore), LONG before this point in time.
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Phil on this one. I would be very peeved to take a hit on the price and then be nickle-dimed to death with petty BS.

    That would make me love to take the down payment and send the nit picker on his way.

    HM
     
  5. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    You do not provide the complete 'punch list' and I can understand why.

    Another option is for you and your son to hit the house with a bunch of tools and repair all you can - a loose outlet, clean the gutters? OK the shingle may be a bit more.

    I suspect the buyer hired a building inspector who tore through the place (common where I live) - buyers want the entire list rectified rather understand that some of it is just typical wear and tear and really does not impact the sale.

    My last house I bought at a great price in that everyone who looked at it had an inspection - the house had TONS of little things - this ended up with the nickle and dime situation. I bought it with no contingencies (Yes, I had and inspection too. Inspector came up with the same list of little items - when I asked for his opinion on the house as a whole he response was "I've only seen three houses this nice in all my career.")

    I suspect that if the buyer walks your son will be obligated to return the deposit - weather it is in the contract or not it would fall under "acceptable practices."

    Good luck
     
  6. oldgahchamp

    oldgahchamp Active Member

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    Your mess needs to be solved by YOUR attorney. As for home inspectors, they are grossly overpaid. In my area, they get 2 or 3 hundred dollars or more for an hour or two of nitpicking. 10 years ago, we had our house "sold" except for a "home inspection". We had talked with the prospective buyers and told them they would probably need to replace the roof in the next 2 or 3 years. They were fine with that. When the home inspector got through explaining the roof to them, they wanted me to replace it before closing. That deal went South. Larry
     
  7. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    Home inspectors work for the buyer and under an understanding that they must earn their keep. They write a report that falls under a CYA---for you unknowing..(Cover Your Butt) if they make notation all over the report that you should consult an electrician or a plumber or a structural engineer or Ect.
    it shows they are unable to evaluate or are afraid not to mention petty things that buyers use to nickel & dime you to death. Buyers will run if they feel they don't get their way. Home buying is supposed to be a WIN/WIN situation but the present market has tipped the balance a bit. How bad do you want to sell? You can tell them NO. Then they have to choose how bad they want the property.

    Big Jack
     
  8. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    Good for the greedy Realtors, but in reality the buyer was getting ready to hold a gun to your head.....maybe he wanted out, maybe more $$ off.... seems the latter, in any event he is a dickweed and I would not even shake his hand at the closing.
     
  9. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    As a Certified Residential Appraiser I know something about this subject, so I will interject my wisdom into this discussion.

    If the punch list was "agreed to" at the time of sale IE; when the buyer inspected the property then your son must complete the repairs.

    If the punch list was not agreed to then the buyer must eat the repairs.

    After 10 days in escrow nobody may back out of the deal without penalty.

    The new buyer may postpone closing if the "agreed to repairs" are not done,and should because once escrow is closed he looses much of his leverage to get the agreed upon items fixed. However he can't just back out of the deal without penalty.

    Now,you must know that he can go back and sue for the cost of the repairs after the fact, if the "agreed to repairs" are not made. This would probably cost your son more than if he just fixed everything the guy want, because the fixes are going to be done by someone who is charging by the hour.

    It all comes down to what was "agreed to, IN writing " at the time of sale.

    The buyer can not just come up with a bunch added BS after the fact, and threaten to back out unless it is done. He would not prevail in court.

    If this is all petty stuff I might be in your sons best interest to just fix the stuff. Nobody says it has to be a lifetime fix, halfass usually works in this instance.

    Here's the deal,,,, This is the type of stuff the Real Estate Agents that are involved are supposed to be taking care of. This is what they get paid too much to do. I'd make them perform or "I" wouldn't let escrow close. See how fast things get fixed when the RE Agent's commissions are being held up by the escrow company! They usually have the money spent on the same day as closing.

    Same with Lawyers in states where they are a required for a RE transaction, we don't have that problem in CA but NY does..

    Hope this helps.

    Randy
     
  10. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    Randy,

    I resemble your remark. As a licensed real estate agent and associate broker in the Commonwealth of Virginia let me inject "MY WISDOM" to this discussion...


    What did the seller and buyer agree to? What was written?


    As an agent that "get paid to much", we only represent the best interest of our party. If I was representing the buyer, it would be clearly written in a home inspection addendum of the needed repairs. The seller’s agent would present it to the seller and they would agree or disagree and come to terms.


    When it is all over what it agreed to in writing it what is enforceable.


    Have I spent some money to get a deal closed? I sure have. Have I approached the other agent to help to get a deal closed? I sure have. I feel that is good business.


    It is true that if the deal does not close, I don’t get paid. What makes you think that it is my “job” to clean a gutter or fix loose trim? My “job” is to facilitate a real estate transaction.


    If the contract is completed the escrow will be closed. Funds will be transferred to the seller and associated parties and commissions will be paid.


    By the way…. Don’t appraisers get paid even if the transaction does not close?? I guess the appraisers need real estate agent to sell homes so the lenders can call appraisers….


    We are all in this together…. Give me a break……

    Mark Geslock
     
  11. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Mark: break given: right now, Appraisers are lucky to even get a job. Appraisal Management Companies have killed my business down to I think I have done like 5 appraisals this year. Luckily I have another business. None of my appraiser friends will even break $40K this year!

    Point was, that you as an agent WOULD facilitate getting the deal closed, it shouldn't be up to the buyer or seller to deal with supposed issues the day before closing. All of this should have been made sure of completion by the agent's well before that. And an agent that was looking out for their client, on either side of the transaction, would have made sure all of the T's and I's were dotted long before closing.

    I'm not suggesting that you yourself fix the problems, but I am suggesting that you yourself makes sure they get fixed, and if that means kicking the other agent in the ass, so be it. It's not the clients job to deal with the other agent or party for that matter, it's your job. And I know, you know this well.

    You are absolutely right about "only written", being enforcable. Which was what I said too. There really should have been no issues if this was in place and everybody had done thier job..

    If you have been an agent for any length of time, you have seen agents that didin't do squat for their commissions. and I am not insinuating you are one of those, but there are far to many out here in CA, especially in the Ojai Valley.

    The one that gets me on MLS most often is "buyer to satisfy self on square footage of house" IE: I'm not getting paid enough to spend 20 minutes measuring a house even if I knew how. Or buyer to satisfy self as to whether or not guest house was permitted! cuz, I'm too busy to call the assessor. When I read this kind of stuff on MLS I just want to slap them!

    When I bought my house 6 years ago, my agent and the sellers agent split $38K!

    The sellers agent didn't even list the property on Ventura County MLS only on Ojai Valley MLS which has very limited exposure. He was trying to get both sides of the deal by selling to a local buyer. He didn't do or sell anything. We approached him. The house was on the market, a screaming market, for 18 months at $100K over value. He did nothing to correct this so it sat. He could have even gotten and appraisal from his boss who is a Broker and a Certified General Appraiser, but he was too busy for that. The client suffered.

    My agent's ENTIRE involvement with me and my wife was less than 40 hours, which included looking at 6-8 houses and writing offers for 3. Less than 3 weeks total before we got into escrow on this place.

    That's $450/hour! And we never saw her or heard from her again after the deal closed. This was a $700K deal, you'd think we'd at least gotten a bouquet of flowers! It's hard to justify $450/hour for that kind of service? Even first class hookers don't get paid that much.

    I'm lucky to make $375 for an appraisal that takes me 8 hours to do. Not even $50/hr, and you wouldn't believe the liabiltiy they have hung on us.

    Do you guys in VA have to have lawyers involved on every transaction like NY? Now that would be challenging.

    If you watch TWBS daily www.twbs.com you'll see the entire industry is going down the drain and the banks are pushing to take over the whole show. They want to make buying a house like buying a used car. Here's what we have available, go pick one, come back we'll sign the papers. No negotiations accepted, if you don't like it, you don't get to buy a house.

    They have ruined appraising, they are in the process of ruining Mortgage Brokering, and they will be coming after RE Agents next. Everybody will have to work for a bank, and the days of healthy comissions and nice fees will be a thing of the past. The banks will get it all, and you and me will get a salary which we won't be able to live on!

    Randy
     
  12. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    The AMP companies have forced some of the best appraisers out of business here.
    We are getting several out of market people that are called in to do the work.


    The money you guys make is getting to be next to nothing. Around here, the APM were taking 1/4 of the fees....


    No lawyers needed here. You can use them but most closings are done by a title company.


    In VA you need 2,000 hours of training to get your appraisal license (last time I checked).


    Yea, there are some agents that are a piece of work. Sometimes I feel like I am training the other agent.....


    I guess it's like any other profession... someone is the first in the class and someone is the last. Both met the minimum requirements.....


    My first home that I purchased, I told the broker I did not want the agent at the closing table...... That is one of the reasons i got in the biz....


    Have I hit a home run by selling my own listing? Yep! Sure did.... But I had been working with the buyer for 18 months. The property just fit his needs. It is timing. Have I shown 40 homes to write an offer?.... Yep, done that too.


    All I know if I take care of my clients and put their needs above mine, my needs will be taking care of. We are in the people business.


    Here is how simple it is.... Educate yourself in your profession and listen to your customers. Do what you say you are going to do and do it.... say thank you and please and play nice.
     
  13. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    I am a licenced REALTOR, Assoc. Broker. The professionals that have responded above already corrected most of the misunderstandings previously stated.

    In Michigan real estate contracts must be in writing. It takes an experienced agent to write a good contract for his/her client so that all elements are covered, along with timeframes for completion of all steps, and specified remedies for a variety of anticipated outcomes.

    Im sure there is a section in their contract regarding Inspections, along with a deadline for completion and communicating findings. In my contract there is distinct language that says basically, "if you miss that date, then the inspection clause is deemed to be waived". So, during the time alloted the buyers agent should have made a request for either repairs or $, and gotten that Ammendment in writing with signatures too. Buyer should get proof of the repairs (receipts - or a re-visit). This should have ideally been done early enough so that if there were still problems, there would have been time to remedy them rather than hold the closing hostage. These days, it takes everyones cooperation to get to the closing table. Realtors should set their clients up to have that sort of perspective going into the whole thing- be prepared for some twists and turns along the way - and be reasonable and willing to cooperate. There are lots of moving parts to a real estate transaction.

    Who gets earnest deposit, etc? Again,- all this is detailed in a contract. Look at what is in writing, write a good contract to begin with, and as the others pointed out, do your job by following each step to completion.

    Then there are the opinions. Im sure we could toss out nearly any profession, -- attorneys, investment brokers, doctors, plumbers, and we'd have similar opinions. You might have a better outcome if you look for someone who has a good reputation, is experienced, and comes recommended by others.

    Are there good realtors and bad? Yup - like any profession. Much of the time I work 60-80 hrs a week. I have shown 50+ homes to clients who never bought a home. In those cases I donate my time - but thats just all part of the program. I consider myself a professional. I do alot more than get keys and let you in the home to see the living room. I bring a wealth of information to the table for my clients.

    Have I stepped up to the plate and helped to make a deal come together? Yes. I didnt have to. I have a contract too. Lets look at options here -- I could have made my client come up with more $, or have more stress, or just not close? (Actually, I'll bet you that nine times out of ten when I have had to put $ into a deal its when someone is just being an idiot and is uncompromising and the cleanest easiest way to make it all go away is just step up to the plate and get the job done. Usually, I just havent had the heart to go back to my client at that point.) Im in the business because I like helping people. When its about the money, I'll be all done.

    Greedy? Nope. Sorry, you dont know me. ~ Bill's wife - Liz
     
  14. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Back in my younger days I did warranty work for Kohler, and got sent to a new house that had some warranty problems on a hot tub, the builder who was a complete horses @ss, gave me a punch list of stuff, the work on the hot tub took a few hours as I had to wait for the water to heat up, so I went though the house and did a good punch list, about 10 pages, the price on the house was over $1,000,000, I figured the crooked homebuilder sould do his job right for that amount of money, as the new owners hadn't moved in yet

    I gave the prospective owner the new punch list, man did that homebuilder blow a gasket, but he was selling pure junk, and eye wash The new homebuyer was very happy and sent me a pretty good tip for the info

    I know it was a little low, but for $1,000,000 back in the '80's he should have gotten a flawless house
     
  15. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    All he is doing is trying to get more off the agreed price. He is already getting a good deal and he thinks you are hungry enough to take more off. Stand fast and let him know he will loose his down payment if he does not close the deal. I say he is a greedy person who will not like loosing the down payment. He will sign if you hold your ground. Don't do the repairs at all.
     
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