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OT - Greece can not do it! How can we?

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by slowdp, Nov 20, 2011.

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  1. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    In 2010 Greece's spending was only 12% above their income and they cannot hold it together. How much longer do you think the USSA will be able to hold it together?

    Unemployment over 15% and going over 17% next year.

    What would our citizens say about cutbacks like these?

    Check out these cutbacks and look at the tax increases.

    • Putting 30,000 civil servants on 12 months' notice with a 60% pay cut and extending to 2014 a move to replace only one in 10 of those leaving or retiring from the public sector.

    • Pensions of more than €1,200 a month cut by 20% and payments for those who retired before 55 cut by up to 40%. A 10% pension cut had already been agreed in previous austerity plans.

    • Extend a higher real estate tax to 2014 and reduce the tax-free threshold from €12,000 to €5,000 a year.

    • An increase in VAT from 19% to 23% and taxes on everything from cars, tobacco and alcohol to a windfall tax on large companies' profits.
     
  2. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    Other sources about Greece.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-11-18/greece-austerity-budget/51295008/1

    http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-10/world/world_europe_greece-main_1_greece-unity-government-herman-van-rompuy?_s=PM:EUROPE
     
  3. Hal1225

    Hal1225 Member

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    Sorry to little to late. This is what happens when term limits are never established and corruption is allowed to be legal. Know one can fight city hall! So the best thing to do is join them. See how easy it is for police to arrest people. This is a police state. This has gone on my whole life and will continue when I'm dead. I am 65 YO. The 3 kids will have to deal with it. I have no solution. The vote has not worked. The crooks wanted a state income tax, they got it even when thousands of citizens didn't want it. One hand washes the other. The judges perpetuate the system and so do the voters. Frankly my dear!.....

    Harry
     
  4. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    I posted this to get a dialog going. Throwing our hands up and saying it has always been this way will not help. Can you imagine what will happen in this country when we are forced to pay the piper? We will be forced to pay up at some time. How do we get the attention of congress now? The process has started but we must make it stronger and faster.
     
  5. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    Greece can't print more money like ChairSatan Bernanke. China loaned real money (value based) to us. The Feral Reserve now owns MORE US debt than China. How can that be? They LOANED it to us by printing it!
     
  6. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    What will happen when our currency is tossed aside as the world currency? All hell will break loose. What do we need to tell the dummies in Washington to do now so this will not happen?

    Elections are around the corner? Can we get enough support to get the people in office to make the hard decisions?

    How about generating an action list of expenditures to cut?
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    America will become a third world country in our lifetime.

    All it took was promising the populace that socialism was the answer and government could provide for all their needs.
     
  8. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

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    The US has become two countries: one that is self reliant and another parasitic. The sooner it splits the better. This is nothing new or radical...historically, we're way overdue for the inevitable.
     
  9. Rocketdog

    Rocketdog Member

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    Hire more government employees and raise their wages benefits and retirements.
    Have the sheep pay for it all.
     
  10. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    Where are the hard decisions? What will it take to get the country back in the black and back on track?
     
  11. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    It would be a good start to get people off the govt teat. 2 years for unemployment is too long. why work when you can get nearly what you made working by just staying home? Look at our military, Used to be that the military was pretty much self sufficient ( cooked their own meals, did their own repairs to their duty station, etc, etc. Now days all that stuff is done by contract labor, even in Iraq there were contract cooks feeding the troops. That to me is a waste of money, and our leaders(said tongue in cheek) think that it's ok. lots of gi's sitting on their arses while civilians are doing the upkeep for them. Somethings gone haywire. Our money will never be worth anything anymore unless we have it backed by something substantial like in the days of the gold standard. Sometimes it seems that we are doomed because we keep on repeating the same ole mistakes

    Bob
     
  12. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Wow! We've heard from the pessimistic, Grammie-wannabes, now where are the realists?
     
  13. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    All we need is a plan. Cut 10% of current, not future spending per year for 10 years. While were at it, drill here, eliminate any duplicating government agencies, send the aliens back, take some authority away from the EPA, scrap this Green Intiative BS that is fake as Gore's internet, and we're there.
     
  14. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    now we are starting to get somewhere. Let's hear some more good ideas. Be specific.

    How about abolish the income tax system as it is now and start a simpler tax? Then delete 1/2 the IRS jobs nationwide.

    Abolish the earned income tax credit.

    The new income tax would and should touch everyone in the USA. Everyone should have a stake in the system.

    Anyone between 25 and 65 who does not have an income, is not retired or is not disabled would not be allowed to vote. If you do not put in you do not get a say.

    All federal aid to foreign countries would be stopped until we have a surplus. Anyone feeling sorry for people in other countries should form or join a charity group to assist them. Charity is not a purpose of the federal government.

    All federal aid to immigrants moving to the US would be stopped. If you cannot pay your way you do not get to come.

    No visa would be renewed after the 5th year unless you could prove you were filing for citizenship. No visas at all after the 10 year. Join us in full or get out.

    All illegals must go. Any illegal whose country would not take them back would be incarcerated for the rest of their live in a WORK camp. They would be responsible for their own food, clothing and shelter. The work camp would be made profitable by selling surplus food and setting up factories - car tags, sewing, repairs and such.

    All prisons would be made self sufficient. A prisoner has no rights other than shelter and food. Remember, they gave up their rights when they committed a crime.

    Retirement age will have to be bumped up. We are not producing enough offspring to support ourselves in old age. All persons younger than 55 will see full retirement move to 70 at least.

    Social Security is for those who paid into it. Social Security is not for disability. Children of a person who died unexpectedly should be cared for. Drug addicts and alcoholics should not pivot off Social Security.

    Medicaid must be looked at and the fraud removed with harsh punishment.

    Care for illegitimate children must stop. A person producing children must have a means to care for them. I'll bet the birth rate of illegitimate children would be reduced if people knew the government would not care for them.

    The military should not hire outside contractors for general daily activities such as security, cooking, washing and cleaning. Soldiers should perform these duties.

    Obamacare must be abolished. Free clinics or government clinics with charges based on income could be established assist those in need.

    Unemployment compensation must be reduced. We cannot pay people to sit at home. Remember - we are sending the illegals home. There will jobs for all citizens of the USA. These jobs may be undesirable but they are better than starving.

    Taxes on corporations must be reduced and a climate must be created to encourage corporations to start production in the USA.

    All "free trade" treaties shall be cancelled unless the treaty is with a country that has agencies like OSHA and EPA comparable to these agencies in the USA. The foreign free trade partner must honor labor laws similar to the labor laws of the USA. No exceptions. Countries without free trade agreements will have tariffs imposed on their products.

    Lobby groups as we know them shall be abolished. There shall be no corporate sponsored lobby groups. This will hit gun control but it is necessary to stop large businesses running the government.

    All people in public office shall produce an asset summary when entering and each year thereafter. Any person holding public office with substantial asset gains shall be audited and charged with a felony if the gains are from improper sources such as lobbyists and insider trading. A politician is there for the betterment of the USA and not the betterment of his/her bank account.

    All insider trading by politicians shall be a felony.

    Presidential Executive orders shall be limited by a constitutional amendment. This is a way for one person to control the USA and it must be stopped.

    There shall be no war started or engaged in without the approval of congress. This includes entry into other countries internal disputes. We are not the police of the world.

    The internal oil production of the USA shall be increased. The USA shall reduce dependency on outside forms of energy.

    Coal found in the USA shall be utilized as energy.

    Most, if not all, subsidies for production in the USA shall cease. This shall include farm subsidies, ethanol production subsidies and green energy subsidies.

    The Federal Reserve system shall be abolished or reigned in. The Federal Reserve system should be a government agency and not a private bank.

    All bailouts shall stop. Private and public corporations shall work out their own problems. If a corporation cannot work out its internal problems it shall fail.

    There shall be no government backed loans except for education loans to qualified full time students.

    If you think this list is harsh wait until we lose our dollar status as the money of the world. That is when things will get harsh.

    I am not a pessimist. I am a realist. I can tell you, if we do not take harsh steps now the USA will not exist in another 10 years as we know the USA today.

    What do you have to add to the list?
     
  15. Sportshot

    Sportshot Active Member

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    I like your list. But this student loan farce is my exception. The universities I'm familiar with are ivory towers with fantastic campuses and gardens and opulent buildings and tenured professors making $250K a year and teaching 2 or 3 classes a week which meet on mon/wed/friday. the rest of the time is what? Publish or perish a bunch of theoritical crap in journals? Education needs to get back to hard nuts, just like work is, college should not be a $40,000 a year feather bed of sports and keg parties, paid for by taxpayers. (you don't really expect these kids to pay back $1 trillion in student loan debt do you?)

    ps student loans for kids taking math, science, engineering.... no more art appreciation, contemporary dance, romantic literature, even business finance.... get a real degree, then study that recreational stuff on your own dime, for the rest of yoiur life. I would have liked to major in trapshooting
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"Anyone between 25 and 65 who does not have an income, is not retired or is not disabled would not be allowed to vote. If you do not put in you do not get a say."</i>

    Germany of old used to have a law that citizens could not vote while receiving welfare. They saw the obvious flaw in allowing welfare recipients to become a voting block and voting themselves more from the treasury.

    There is merit in this. Unfortunately, while our Founding Fathers were aware of this issue, they did not specifically write this in their documents. I would imagine that they felt that freemen could vote, but women, slaves and I would guess endentured servants could not.

    Those receiving Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid paid into the system (at least most did). Unemployment benefits were paid by employers (though some benefits were extended using taxpayer money). The point is, the majority of these people paid directly or indirectly into these programs.

    Welfare, on the other hand, is not a benefit that was paid directly or indirectly by people who are on it. It's paid for by taxpayers as a whole. Many receiving these benefits have never paid taxes.

    The same could be said for many who received student loans. As long as they are a productive member of society and are paying back their loans, I see no reason to deny their vote. But if they are not paying their loan back, hmmm.

    of course, this is pie in the sky. No one has the guts for this kind of legislation, and I doubt the courts would uphold it. There is no real precedent here for it. Maybe after the reset button gets pushed, if ever.
     
  17. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    And if they are going to stop farm subsidies fine, quit regulating the Ag business
     
  18. Hal1225

    Hal1225 Member

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    Take the interest payments away and establish zero interest student loans, zero interest small business loans for businesses with 5 employees or less and sales of $250,000.00 or less. Zero interest home loans and no property taxes for families with 2 children and income less than $30,000.00. Flat $200.00 dues tax for everyone except children, seniors, military, disabled and handicapped. Car insurance comes with registration with cost to register $200 tops. Medical insurance is not needed. Gov pays 100%. No gov pensions, volunteer employees only.
    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

    Harry
     
  19. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Harry, if zero percent interest loans are such a good idea, how about loaning me $100,000 at that rate? I really need the money and zero is plenty for you.

    Where do you think the gov will get the money to pay for everybody's health care? You must think it grows on money trees.
     
  20. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    Harry sounds like one of those libs that got us in trouble with the giveaways and entitlements in the first place.
     
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