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OT Global Economy & why we're in deep

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by R.Kipling, Jan 29, 2009.

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  1. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    If you're interested: This is a 10 minute MBA on the Fed. It's an easy why-and-how the money changers have a death grip on us. You can also access more information from here. It's going to be a long winter. I can't wait for the 5-stand to open up on Saturday, I need to shoot something!

    Kip
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Very few of us knw that.

    Paul Warburg, I believe came over here at the behest of his Rothschild banker masters to do this evil deed.

    There were Americans invlolved in this coup also, Morgan, Rockefeller, and others. Europeans included Schiff and the Queen of England.

    They use usury to control the masses. People are driving cars they do not own home to houses they also do not own. They are made to want thing through skilful manipulation by the media, and kept interested on things other than their own destiny. (Bread and Circuses - WWF, Nascar, NFL, etc.)

    Recommended reading:

    War Cycles, Peace Cycles by H. L. Hoskins. A history of usury over the ages and how it affects humanity.

    Inside the Temple - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins. The workings of the monstrosity that was created.

    A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn, from 1492 to the present through the eyes of the poor and downtrodden. (This one is kind of radical and will piss you off too).

    Most people did not know about the Fed being a private for profit corporation. Some did.

    Grammie, How ya doin?

    HM
     
  3. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    HM,

    grammie said to say Hello ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    *Grin*

    HM
     
  5. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    I think it's called( New World Order.)

    The Rothschilds were charging 28%-30% interest to the Germans in 1929-1930.

    Then there was (Crystal Night).

    I need not say more.

    Bocephas
     
  6. WGB

    WGB Member

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    Bocephus you are apparently confused on German history, the economy and fact. When revisionist history pops up the nuts pop out. Conspiracy, paranoia and trapshooting? The Nazis are out today.
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Kristallnacht was in 1938. 90 some odd Jews were murdered and 25 thousand or so carted off to concentration camps.

    Germany was in a full blown war economy at the time. Krupp Farbenindustrie had not gotten to use forced labor yet, and times were good.

    Ich bin Ein Deutscher.

    HM
     
  8. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Money changers? You mean George Soros? The Prez's sponsor?
     
  9. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    We're in deep because we are the global economy and we're sending to much money out of the country and the mortage bankers have taken us to the cleaners!
     
  10. John Browning

    John Browning TS Member

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    We seem to believe, what ever they want us to. They hire a B-movie actor to be our Leader,and even after he gets us in debt billions,he's just the greatest.Bill and Newt and a few conservatives left in Washington had us on the right track, paying off our debt. Then the Neo cons hire another hit squad to destroy our nation by miring us in hopeless debt.
    We seem to vote for these people out of fear, someone will take our guns,queers will get married,anything they can think to keep their people in power and weaken the US, case in point the patriot act. John
     
  11. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    John B,

    With due regard, we've had this discussion before. There isn't a President in our history that has control of our money. The congress approves, writes and signs all the checks. When we are doing good it's because congress has a strong grip on the checkbook. When we're not, it's their responsibility, again. All the rest of the government, including the President asks (suggests) for a budget. It's not often that the final budget looks anything like what a President presents.

    Even with this latest deep hole in the desert, it was the Neo-liberals and their 12 year long, and renewed give-away, sub-prime mortgages that broke our backs. Couple that with the 06' Dem controlled congress that has raised the national debt 25% in the last two years, and you really can't cipher any monetary differences in the parties.

    Bush made a lot of mistakes, one of the biggest was leaving Clinton's appointees in charge of Freddie and Fannie. The failed 2005 vote to haul in the F's only included 17 arrant Republican votes. It was one time when the 'fear' was real and nobody paid attention.

    I'll bet that I'm not the only one that would like to hear your synopsis on how the Patriot Act kept anyone in power, and weakened the US? I'm always up for a civil discussion on the topics. Read up on Woodrow Wilson's own Patriot Act(s), the Liberals shinning star of a President makes GW a choir boy.

    IMO,
    Kip
     
  12. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    WGB,I was trying to make a point,although maybe in poor taste.

    Point being the American People are getting fed up.

    Wall street Bonus payed out.

    Bankers will not reveal where the tax payers money went,you and I are paying for this.

    $50,000,000 jet ordered,and after pressure they canceled,yea right.

    Pelosi $60,000 for fuel each way for her jet.

    Do you have any idea how many jets Citi Bank has?Many,many,many.

    We have a bunch of Piranhas in Washington,and Wall Street.They all want a piece of the victim.

    Sad to say you and I are the victim.

    Bocephas
     
  13. John Browning

    John Browning TS Member

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    Kip,liberals and neo cons kept the real estate market going, because it was their cash cow. This still doesn't account for a blown out Federal budget,when for six of W's eight years he had a republican controlled congress. One of the reasons the budget went up in the last 2 years,was the bailing out of Banksters, that if I recall pushed for and got via Phil Graham, deregulation that they said was no longer needed. The patriot act lets the government spy on anyone, using any method, that doesn't sound bad, unless you happen to disagree with what their doing. We almost got another Neo con in the White House, and he was going to deregulate the health care industry, how many trillions would that have cost. John
     
  14. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    John B,

    Like I said, 25% in two years is exactly 75% in 6 years - no difference- and that's pre-bailout. Did you happen to view the Youtube video I put up for you in my last post? That's where you'll find the gangsters that kept the sub-prime going, not Phil Graham.

    I still don't believe that there has ever been any indication that the Patriot Act has been abused, though I do believe that if you have nothing to hide, you should not fear someone looking for terrorists. You might try reading the Act, and seeing for yourself what's in it. I didn't find anything that upset me more than the twin towers.

    IF by another Neo-con you're speaking of John McCain, that's laughable. The reason McCain lost was that he is more a liberal than anything. RINO is the popular term. NYC alone posted $4 Billion dollars in Medicaid/Medicare fraud in 06 & 07, government subsidized healthcare couldn't be much more unregulated.

    So, now we have neo-lib's running around DC like bunny rabbits, and we find out today that their idea of a stimulus package is giving illegal aliens our tax dollars, and excluding "white men...in construction" from benefiting in the infrastructure rebuilding. That's a strange way of changing America.

    Kip
     
  15. Turtle29728

    Turtle29728 TS Member

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    R.Kipling-- I must disagree.
    The Patriot Act gives the government the right to do things it should never be allowed to do.Just because it's being done to "someone else" doesn't make it any less offensive to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. If it can be done to the other guy, some day they may get around to you too! The nature of government is to extend and expand it's power. The founding fathers knew this. That is the purpose of our Constitution, to restrain this tendency. The 4th Amendment wasn't adopted to protect criminals,although sometimes it does. It was adopted to protect you and I from unfettersd spying into our private affairs. I realize this is a hard distinction to appreciate, but it is true, none the less.I'm no liberal--just the opposite, but the Patriot Act scares the hell out of me because of the power it confers. Maybe it hasn't been abused yet. I don't know. But it will be, you can bet on it. Maybe it will be used next against us "gun nuts" , as many in our society would characterize us. The present administration may "need" to spy on us since we represent such a clear and present danger to peace and civility as a result of our "unnatural" (as some would have it) fondness for things that go "BOOM"!.
     
  16. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    We are entering, almost in, a period of extream Middle Class hardship...

    The Rich will always be rich and Poor will always be poor so they acclimate to their condition...

    OTOH the Middle Class (almost extinct) which is the former backbone of America is being reduced to a confused, jobless, incomeless, pissed off group of peoples that are going to react in a very forceful way against the Washington DC Crooks that are charged with running the show.

    Accountability may yet become a profound measure in American justice as it applies to our leaderless "Leaders".......

    regards
     
  17. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Turtle,

    Again, all due regard to your position. Let me prefix my comments here with the fact that I do not often find myself defending any form of big government. However, I do firmly believe in fact, not fantasy or fear-mongering in any form, either. Knowledge and fact are friends to democracy, and our Republic. Both are available for our use, IF we use due-diligence to guide our conclusions. Without these tools, you get an emotional, crisis-mentality that makes us lambs to the slaughter. This fact has never been more obvious than it has been over the last 14 years.

    Reading the Patriot Act, I find that it was designed to gather important intelligence that vastly originates outside the USA. This fact is likely why it was first passed, and has been renewed by a bipartisan congress (including BHO's vote, in favor). The 4Th Amendment is only applicable to "the people" so there is no expectation of constitutional privilege to non-citizens. In addition to the Federalist Papers, I suggest that you might also familiarize yourself with the Anti-Federalist Papers for constitutional context.

    "4Th Amendment:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    The Carter Administration set up the FISC court in 1978 (see web reference). FISC is the place that all such surveillance warrants originate. Non-domestic surveillance is not a step-child of the Bush administration or the Patriot Act by any means. As noted in the 4Th Amendment, warrants for/against US citizens require "probable cause". Probable Cause requires some cursory knowledge that a violation of law may have been committed. Difficult to discover this knowledge without a bit of intrusion in some form or another, that's why the 4Th Amendment says "unreasonable searches", and not absolute prohibition.

    Now, and I've made this offer before, if you can point to any specific abuse of the Patriot Act, let's deal with it. If not, then in all likelihood, your response is fear based. That doesn't mean it's not a real or rational fear, just that it can't be enumerated. In which case, our government operatives are privileged (under the same 4Th Amend. protection) from being persecuted by your fears.

    I know that in recent years the Democrat party and their minions have screamed long and hard about this issue. However, have you noticed any such noise since they returned to the majority? NO! The DNC dropped this issue like the smoldering cow pie it is, immediately. The DNC has learned well about leading lambs to slaughter. If you care about what is being done to our country and you, research Antonio Gramsci's rules for passive revolution. Gramsci is the blueprint the DNC is using to usurp our Republic.

    Potential abuses of the Patriot Act are classic misdirection tactics. Tactics that make you look away while this gang of pirates picks your pockets clean. Don't be distracted.

    THX

    IMO,
    Kip
     
  18. Turtle29728

    Turtle29728 TS Member

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    Kip:
    No sooner said than done! name removed. Sorry about that.
    In response o your last post:
    I acknowledge the persuasiveness of your points (very well written and logically supported, I might add)but still do not agree with you. I have been dealing with law enforcement and prosecutors, federal and state,for about 30 years and can tell you without any qualm whatsoever, that if abuse is possible, it will occur. My problem with the Patriot Act is that it makes abusive conduct not only possible, but likely renders it legal. If so, there will be no way to "deal with it" as you put it, when and if it has or does occur. I am extremely conservative in my views regarding almost any issue,and I agree with you totally that our liberty is being co-opted by the DNC and others, but I am never the less an absolute zealot when it comes to issues regarding the first ten amendments to the Constitution, particularly the fourth and fifth (and the 2nd, of course!). It is these very safeguards, and their practice in fact, that give us the moral right to hold ourselves up to the world as a sterling example of fairness and civility.If we compromise our values,we lose that right and distinction. I accept the proposition as fact, that much of the animosity and distrust of our nation in the world is attributable to our unfortunate habit, during the cold war in particular, to support some many oppressive regimes. The founding fathers of our great nation were probably (collectively) the greatest gathering of political minds that this world has ever seen. The fruit of their labors, our nation's government, was and is a work of genius. You imply that my positions are motivated by fear. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have the utmost faith in our principles and institutions when they are not diluted. Fear of anything, be it terrorism, communism, whatever the boogey man may be at the moment, is what prompts and motivates imprudent measures like the Patriot Act, and the torturing of prisoner, etc. Careful, prudent and forceful action,in line with our laws and principles, is called for in response to danger, not abandonment of those priciples for the sake of expediency. Otherwise, we run the risk of finding ourselves in a position akin to that observed by a cartoon character popular during my Father's youth. I believe it was the comic strip character Pogo who mused "We have met the enemy and he is us". Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to discuss these matters seriously and thoughtfully without rancor. I hope we'll have an opportunity to shoot together some day and carry this discussion (and others no doubt)forward over coffee, a beer, a martini, a bourbon and water, whatever. You name the poison. haha
     
  19. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Turtle,

    You'll get no argument out of me that; "absolute power corrupts, absolutely." Abuse of authority is one of many human conditions. My 30 plus years of government experience has taught me that the shallower the human mind, the more likely I am to find the human condition that corrupts. Sounds like you have had a similar experience. This is a major reason that I promote the ardent search for knowledge and introspection of facts so often.

    This said, if you are a stanch defender of the Constitution, then you recognize that everyone is "Innocent until proven guilty". In my view, that includes -everyone-. From your comments, one might presume the reverse to be true? The line between vigilance and cynicism can become razor thin when pessimism guides the blade. That's why circumstantial evidence isn't corroborative. Wise men, our founding fathers.

    FWIW, when I spoke of assumptions based on fear, it wasn't personal fear that I was describing. It was exactly the expectation-of-abuse that you confirmed in your response.

    I've been fortunate to have been around the world several times, and I can tell you from my direct experience that the world doesn't distrust us, they hate us. But, it's not a new condition either, ask Presidents Monroe, T. Roosevelt or either Bush'. Foreign countries are run by humans, humans that suffer all the expected human conditions of authority and abuse of power on their own. Envy and animosity might be better words for the majority of counties. Disgust, and belligerence would be appropriate words for the misconduct of others.

    I've interacted with governments that have no earthly reason to disdain the US. Still, right down to the general population, these people would resent every drop of medicine, every bite of food and virtually everything else the US provided for them. That's how I became to recognize the human conditions. It's also textbook Marx, and Gramsci, divide and conquer.

    My point is that I have no idea how this thread got so far off the Federal Reserve Bank, but I have enjoyed it just the same.

    I'd enjoy a drink, but since I only drink one week a year, and that's at the Grand, and then only in combination with a beer and an Italian Sausage Sandwich, let's make it there.

    Kip
     
  20. John Browning

    John Browning TS Member

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    Kip,You were right about me getting off base,I was just pointing out that the people that control the Fed, also control a lot of our government.I think the GOP has been taken over by them and we need to start voting them out. Thanks John
     
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