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OT-Electronic training collars

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by kim hatala, May 24, 2007.

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  1. kim hatala

    kim hatala TS Member

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    I have a black lab mix(?), spayed female, 2 yrs. old. She started being agressive towards other dogs about a year ago, especially towards our 10yr. old male peek-a-poo(violant biting and shaking him in her mouth, two separate emergency surgeries for bite wounds; has a permanent titanium staple in his chest). She has also attacked one of our 11 yr. old male cats; we were able to get her off the cat before any serious injuries occured. She has been in obedience training and obeys 95% but when she is fixed on another animal forget it. Agression is now showing in public towards other dogs; large and small. One vet says she is trying to take over "the pack" because she senses the older dog is weak(normal in wild packs), one vet says she is jealous of other animals in the home, one trainer says she needs more socialization and yet another trainer says she is afraid of the other animals so she feels she needs to attack them before they attack her. Everybody does agree she will kill an animal if behavior isn't stopped. At this point she has not shown any aggression towards any person, not even a stranger. Does bark and carry on but no signs of forward aggression and when I give her the command "house", she goes to her crate with no problem. Thought about e-collar last year but wasn't sure that was the way to go. We use basket muzzle when we can't supervise her. Now new trainer is strongly suggesting the e-collar, especially Innotek ADV300 or ADV1000. From Tri-Tronics she is suggesting IUT-300. Does anybody have any experience with these collars? It's not that I don't trust the trainer but every trainer I have worked with are also breeders and have had at least 10 years experience at this. This has cost me a great deal of money and I'm getting frustrated and depressed as to what to do. We love her very much and she is a good dog most of the time but she does have her bad side. Sorry for such a long post, just trying to give you as much info as possible. I really need serious suggions! Thanks you!!!
     
  2. k3uro

    k3uro Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    Hey,

    My dog is a hunting dog and he knows what the collar is all about. He has from time to time tried to run through the collar. Make sure you get one that has enough pop to make him stop what he is doing or you are wasting your money.

    Make sure which ever model you get that you tell them you want one to stop aggression.

    Than you have to train the dog some with the collar.

    Low settings first, than up it as needed.

    Good Luck.

    You know sometime making a change is better.

    Jim
     
  3. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    1,547
    Wireguy has it right. You would need to hit her hard with "NO!" the instant she shows any signs of making an aggressive move. If you wait until she is attacking she will just interpret the pain with the other animal fighting back and may attack even harder. I'm not sure who your "trainers" are, but I would want to talk to an experienced Retriever Field Trial trainer, who would have lots of experience working with all kinds of problems with Labs (and Chessys, Goldens, etc.). Unfortunately, your problem may be beyond help, and the solutions are to keep her completely away from other animals (AND KIDS!), or put her down. I would opt for the second, even knowing how hard that can be. In this day and age one can't afford to have an aggressive, uncontrollable dog.
     
  4. OregonDon

    OregonDon TS Member

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    The training collars I've seen clearly state that they are not intended to control aggressive behavior. Don
     
  5. BP348

    BP348 Active Member

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    Location:
    Texas
    What is she mixed with? It could be that her prey, rank, and/or hunt drives are extremely high. There may be some things you can do to diminish the drives but they will never go away. Find an experienced field trainer or at least get another trainer to give you some options. Kind of like getting a second opinion.

    I hate to say it but I agree with wireguy. The timing would have to be perfectto catch the dog biting another dog or you're going to have to purposely attempted to have the dog show aggression to another animal by putting them together.

    Find her a new home or you're just going to have to keep her separated from the other small animals. Well that or put her down.
     
  6. ThorsDad

    ThorsDad TS Member

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    kmamabear, the Innotek collars work well if used as directed. We own two for our German Shepards , Thor has similar issue's as your dog and the collar's have helped . Good Luck and keep at it . Jay
     
  7. vesiadog

    vesiadog TS Member

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    kmamabear
    I have been training bird dogs (pointers and GSP's ) for over 25 years. She is a alpha bitch 100%....I really like to get pups from Alpha females but I do not have much positive to tell you about your problem solving. First if you are not experienced with a shock collar you are stepping into a real can of worms. If you hit the collar during an outbreak...there is a real good chance she will think the other dog just did something to her and all hell can and usually will occur. Second if you do not know how to react during the shock treatment...a beginning trainer will usually make a sitution worse. I know of a well known trainer that used a cattle prod to break a fighter...the dog knew who the zapp was coming from..the guy holding the lightning rod!

    I personnally stick with Tri-Tronics and have 2 units now both are 2 dog units one is an older one with plug-ins 1-5 and the other is a new unit with adjustable 1-5 levels and tone-beepers for locating....
    Back to the dog...
    Please take my comments like 2 cent advise ...I know you sound very attached but you must also realize you are dealing with a time-bomb that will hurt or kill animals or ? I had a St. Bernard when I was 18 yrs old and I was very naive to what a Alpha Dog would do....The paper boy use to hit him with a paper from his bike everyday....I walked the boy home and told his dad...dad did his job and gave it to him....The dog broke his chain and garden hose collar one day and during the normal routine of paperboy....about 60 stitches later and enough money to go to 4 yrs of college.....
    I will NEVER keep a Alpha aggressive dog on my property....too much liability. I had one about 10 yrs ago....as a 1 yr old pup he would taunt the other pups to try something...he could raise his fur in seconds.....I held him down to submission instantly and he would just wag his tail to me...but he would still go after the other pups within seconds. I gave him away to a single dog family with a million warnings. The guy said he never saw what I explained in details..this was a 60 lb pointer...At the Vet office one day when he was older.. he went after and put a severe hurt on a 120 shepard...to everyone's shock...I remember the phone call.

    It takes a real PRO to get through to a ALPHA dog...I have never heard of one being totally trained from aggression. Sorry for the not so good news...please keep her away from small children who cannot protect themself. Also there is another personnally trait called rage...it is also a horrible trait ...if a dog I own shows any signs of rage....I put them down... Good luck and I sure wish my experience would shed a better light...
    vesiadog
     
  8. JLW

    JLW TS Member

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    vesiadog is correct.

    I have owned an alpha female for all 10 years of her life and she is not allowed out if kids and dogs are around. My vet said she is why they call them "B's".

    It is most likely best to find her another home unless you are willing to be constantly vigilant for the remainder of her life.

    And....get a hefty insurance policy!-Jerald
     
  9. jimbob

    jimbob TS Member

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    Vesidog said it best. I have always heard that e-collars or for re-enforcing what the dog ALREADY knows. A loud "NO!" from you first before I would intriduce the collar. JMO.
     
  10. SI

    SI TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    kmamabear: I have used several different electronic collars and have found tri-tronics to be the most reliable both in levels of stimulation and general product reliability. They also have very good service should you need it. I currently use the G3 for multiple collars/dogs.

    This being said, I do concur with many others on this post, a very hard decision but the dog needs to be put down!! This behavior is unpredictable and uncontrollable and you are risking other animals and probably at some time another person. Whatever the "mix" portion is of the dog it is not desirable. Get a good purebred lab from a reputable person or kennel and enjoy the companionship.

    Dan
     
  11. kim hatala

    kim hatala TS Member

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    We don't know what she is mixed with but she looks pure bred. My son got her from a friend and they don't know what she is mixed with. He brought her home when she was about 6 weeks old. She looked very sad and I thought she might have been sick but the vet said no. Thinking now the sad look might have been fear? Thank you for your suggestions and I look forward to hearing more before we make a final decision.
     
  12. SShooterZ

    SShooterZ Member

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    I've got a male GSP that can be aggressive to other male dogs.

    I recently went the e-collar route and noticed that while it doesn't stop him from being aggressive, it will distract/deter him enough for me to get him out of that situation.

    I think to change the actual behavior though, it will take a lot more work that what you can do with an e-collar.
     
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