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OT Electrical Help OT

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by 13ga, Apr 25, 2007.

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  1. 13ga

    13ga Member

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    I have a 250v plug that has 2 wires and a ground. I have a generator that has a 4 prong twist lock receptical 250v . I need to fit this 4 prong plug to this 2 wire and ground machine Help anyone
    Thanks
    Mike
     
  2. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Without being an electrical engineer electrician type of person it almost sounds like that maybe the socket is different for a BIG MAJOR reason and that maybe it should not be done. Most times that special type of plug means its for a special type of circuit or phasing or amperage or who knows exactly what. Aint there no instructions for either the generator or the thing your trying to plug in?
     
  3. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    wireguy knows his stuff.Im just a lowly old supplier..........

    DDC
     
  4. Dale Z

    Dale Z TS Member

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    Throw it away!!!! You need a 4 conductor cable to properly wire a 4 wire twist lock receptal. (As per National electrical code) You can purchase the materials needed to make a new cord at Menards or Home Depot. I have found the cheapest and best way is to purchase one off Ebay. Several months ago I purchased one for a customer factory made cheaper than I could buy the parts to make one. (shipping included) You can get any length you like. Make sure you get one that will handle the max amp load.

    Dale
    (Master Electrician)
     
  5. 13ga

    13ga Member

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    Dale, OK so tell me how to wire the heater that has only three wires but is 240v to use it on my portable generator. as it is now white wire to one side of element black wire to on-off switch and then to other side of element
    Mike
     
  6. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    What type of heater is this? Water heater,wall heater?
     
  7. 13ga

    13ga Member

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    Unit to melt lead
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight:

    You're going to burn gasoline to get electricity to melt lead?


    Sounds like standing in a pail and pulling up on the handle.

    Anyway, a 240V unit should not have a white wire on it. That is a neutral, and only has function in 110V circuits and switch legs. (until you get into arcane stuff like 3phase.)

    Wireguy has the answer, you need to feed the 240 from the generator to the 2 sides of the load. ground wires are for safety so you don't fry if something in the wiring touches the wrong part of the device.

    If your generator is any common brand, an online manual might be available.

    I have a Generac, it has the 4 prong plug also going to a 3 in the trailer. I pasted a link for them, maybe you can find a diagram.

    HM
     
  9. Dale Z

    Dale Z TS Member

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    Sounds like you only have a 3 conductor cable. If you have a properly sized cable (4 conductors) for 240 volts it will have a black wire (hot) a red wire (hot) a white wire (netural) and a green wire (ground) to properly switch the power you should use a 2 pole switch. Black wire to one side red wire to the other so when you shut off power you break all power to the load. If you use a single pole switch such as a light switch to turn your lights on in your home you will only break one hot leg so power still remains on one side of the heater. (which you are presently doing) If you touch the heating element and are grounded you will get zapped. Most heaters will only need the 2 hot wires to operate however the unit needs to be grounded with the green wire (equipment ground)and white wire attached to the neutral bar. (possibly the same point as the green) The neutral and ground basically are the same reference point. (ground) However the 2006 code requires 4 conductors to insure equipments is properly grounded. Presently you are making the white wire a hot wire to get 240 volts to the heater and using the green as neutral and ground. Over the years the code has been constantly changed to insure SAFETY. I would safely say that in future code changes you will see the white wire will no longer be able to be used as the hot or switched leg to a switch in residental wiring. Until the wire manufactures change the colors of the conductors in romex cable you can have a white wire as an ungrounded conductor (hot). THATS WHY WE ARE CALLED SPARKYS assuming all white wires are neutral. Use a 4 conductor cable and be SAFE. 12 gauge wire 20 amps 10 gauge wire 30 amps 6 gauge wire 50 amps you may want to increase the wire size as the lenght of the wire will cause voltage drop especially from a portable generator. The plugs will have marks indicating L1 (hot) L2 (hot) Net (neutral) and GRD (ground). PEOPLE GET KILLED EACH YEAR BY ELECTRICITY IT'S A LOADED GUN ---PLAY SAFE---

    Dale
     
  10. drunk_again

    drunk_again TS Member

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    just cut both plugs off and wire nut the color of same wires together and feget the colors that dont match and go about your rat killing, it will all be good.
     
  11. Dale Z

    Dale Z TS Member

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    JayZap
    A big 10-4.. But how many times do you see a resiy wireman do it?

    Jbbor

    My first Question would be--- Who wired it? If it was a licenced electrician adhearing to the color code only a white or grey identified wire would be used as a netural. But this bring to mind a story I heard of --- a rookie power supplier employee was told to go hook up the coductors in a 4000 amp 3 phase service. The power company does not have any standard to their color coding. Locally the power company uses Red-A phase Hot, White-B phase Hot, Black-C phase hot. Green or bare - Ground. He laid down the conductors white to white, red on one lug, black on another lug, WHAT'S THE OTHER LUG USED FOR? MUST BE FOR WHEN YOU HAVE 4 PHASE he told himself. Just prior to heating up the service the head electrician on the job decided to run a contunity test. He discovered one leg was grounded. Future investigation reveiled the white hot leg had been laid down to the neutral buss. He avoided a big BANG. This is why I would like to see the electrical industry adapt the same color codes.

    Dale
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    jbbor: Get the darned European wire out of her, it causes too many problems.

    Laporte machines came with some of that garbage, and it was of poor quality too.

    HM
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, the neutral is the one you put the white tape on when you hook up if you are doing it right.

    Look at your service entrance feed if you don't understand.

    HM
     
  14. drunk_again

    drunk_again TS Member

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    to answer mr. borums question, you can make any color you want to be your nuetral wire.
     
  15. Dale Z

    Dale Z TS Member

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    By now I'm sure 13ga is thoroughly confused about his heater hookup!!!

    Wasn't it much easier when the code book was 3X5 and 75 pages.
    More to remember now but I think I get zapped a lot less than 35 years ago.

    Thanks jbbor I'll try to remember next time I'm working on a traffic light than the green may not be ground. ALL GOOD POINTS!!! As a point of reference, I never try to run different voltages (120-240 277-480)in the same raceway. I've seen it happen and I've seen the electrical contractor purchase additional equipment. It seems like years ago no one cared what color of wire they used on any phase or voltages.

    Dale
     
  16. Shootrman

    Shootrman Member

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    I wouldnt give any advice on electrical hook ups unless I personally saw the problem. But there are many types of recept. and plugs to match. One could always change their recept. configuation from their electrical panel and then get the plug to match. One thing I will add is I too ordered a shotmaker and when I recieved it I promptly hooked it up to a 110v outlet. Two hours go by and it didnt so much as melt a sinker. I called the company and they told me that if my unit came without a plug on it that it was wired for 220v. I didn't ask for 220 so i assumed it would be 110. Once I wired the thing for 220 and matched it with a plug I was good to go. Go to your local electrical store and ask for advice. Electric Is a very dangerous thing to mess with. Please be careful. And that advice is coming from someone who was on the recieving end of 34,500 volts and is here to tell about it. When it bites...IT BITES HARD.
     
  17. tom-n8ies

    tom-n8ies Member

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    Your shotmaker requires 2 hot wires and a ground. your generator has these available plus a neutral you just don't use the neutral in your case.

    1 get a 4 prong plug that fits your generator.

    2 get a 3 conductor cord(black white and green but any color wires will do)at least #14 preferably #12 long enough to get to your shotmaker.

    3 you may want to get a female receptacle that fits your shotmaker plug for the other end of the cord. Or you could cut the plug off your shotmaker and use wire nuts.

    4 wire the cord to the generator plug as follows: green to ground (green screw)
    black wire to brass colored screw and white to other brass colored screw. leave silver screw with nothing connected to it.

    5 Shotmaker cord end just wire up color to color.

    it is not rocket science but must be done correctly because if you mixed up the hot wires and ground you could end up with all the metal on the shotmaker being hot and if you touch it you could be electocubed. so if you are unsure please have a knowledgeable person check your work. You did remember to drive a ground rod in the ground to hook your generator ground to right?


    tom (not an electritian)
     
  18. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    Tom-n8ies:

    Ok I don't know about the hook up that 13ga is looking for but as far as the ground rod it don't really help a lot on Satellite equipment becasue for almost 5 years I had to ground the primestar satellite systems to either a ground rod or at the electrical boxes and it seemed a lot of times it was the area the satellite system was in because we had a lot of repeat service calls from certian areas after a storm.

    But of course it doesn't hurt to do anything you can to help out the problem.

    Foghorn
     
  19. Dale Z

    Dale Z TS Member

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    Tom-n8ies

    Tom (not an electrician) However you did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night Right?

    1-OK sounds like the right thing to do
    2-WRONG 4 prong receps should have 4 conductors 30 amps = 10 ga 50 amps = 6 ga unless you protect the wire or cord to the shotmaker with a fuse properly sized to the wire. we really don't care what the amp load is however wire should be sized to 120% of max load. 14 ga wire is only rated for 15 amps it may be that the shot maker will only draw 10 amps however the generator may produce 50 amps Fuse to protect the wire. Ever see what a 50 amp source can do to a 14 gauge wire when a direct short is applied???
    3-Sounds about right However if you make a connection with wirenuts connection needs to be made within approved box
    4-Without wiring diagram of shot maker it is difficult to determine if the netural is actually needed for proper operation. But ALL equipment should be properly GROUNDED.
    5- check wiring diagram of shot maker

    As mentioned in above threads white wire = netural black wire = hot red wire = hot green wire = ground I'm quite sure if you reload you don't experiment with unproven recipes for your loads (40 grains 700x for example)to use in your $10,000 gun.

    Electricity can be as dangerous as your loaded gun... PLAY SAFE.... MAYBE HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN.... Would you want your kid to touch an appliance not properly wired?

    Dale (didn't stay at no Holiday Inn)
     
  20. tom-n8ies

    tom-n8ies Member

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    To Dale (didn't stay at no Holiday Inn)

    My generator and probably his only has a 20 amp 4 prong receptacle. He didnt say. but your point about fuseing is correct if it infact larger than a 20 amp circut.

    re 4 If the shot maker is 220 volt and only has two wires and a ground then guess what there is no neutral required. Duh!

    re "quote" As mentioned in above threads white wire = netural black wire = hot red wire = hot green wire = ground I'm quite sure if you reload you don't experiment with unproven recipes

    I still stand behind my original post. White can be used for the other hot in a 220 circut, It appears the shotmaker uses white black and green. Double Duh!
    (Could wrap white wire with black tape or color it with a sharpie if that makes anyone feel better)

    Re PLAY SAFE.... MAYBE HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN (I aggree) at least to check his work.

    At this point after reading all the other posts (but mine) that did nothing to answer the guys original question I have to wonder if you guys are messing with him?

    This will be my last post on the subject.

    tom
     
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