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OT-CCW-22lr vs 380acp

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by chatbrat, May 18, 2008.

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  1. chatbrat

    chatbrat TS Member

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    I picked up an FEG 380 SMC a little over a year ago, it is supposed to be a clone of a Walther PP; anyway, Crimson Trace-just came out with a sight for the PP--- I currently use a S&W 317 22lr ,loaded with Aquilla ammo rated at 204 ft. lbs & the revolver has a Crimson Trace on it---I don't miss with the S&W. Would it be worthwhile to get the Crimson Trace for the FEG? Both ammo's have close the same energy.----I hate to go to an auto loader for ccw---Phil
     
  2. WesleyB

    WesleyB Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Hoosier
     
  3. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    What about the Springfield XD 9mm? see above.

    The Sportsman Warehouse has them on sale for $489.95 in the kit with 2 clips, 1 10 round and 1 16 round. Holster,speed loader and clip holster.
    Here is another link to the gun...


    http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/SpringfieldXD9.html


    Jerbear
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Quote: "....A .22 is preferable only to not having a gun at all..."<br>
    <BR>
    I've packed my Walther PPK-L in .22 LR when it was the only choice for a handgun due to clothing restrictions. You must have a .22 that is very accurate, very reliable, and you must practice so that you are totally confident with shot placement. As in you need to be able to shoot someone through the eye socket(s) at close range. In my opinion, stepping down to a .22 LR in any gun is an extreme compromise, and should be avoided if at all possible.<br>
    <br>
    Better from a power standpoint is the .22 WMRF, especially in the S&W J-Frame. A lot of recoil sensitive women (and some men) bought these instead of .38 Specials. Again these are a compromise, but not anywhere near the compromise of .22 LR.<br>
    <br>
    As far as the .25 ACP is concerned, I place it a wee bit above the .22 LR for power, but in almost all cases rate it very low due to the typical poor quality of the handguns this cartridge is available in.<br>
    <br>
    The .32 ACP is better, but most are now antiques, with exceptions like the Beretta Bobcat (if it's still made).<br>
    <br>
    The .380 ACP (aka 9mm Kurz or Short) is the best of the small CCW handgun cartridges. It's about as large as you can go without needing the strength of a revolver or the locked breech of 9mm handguns.<br>
    <br>
    I'm not fond of Eastern Bloc handguns or cartridges for serious CCW. I'd rather have something that's made with a bit more quality.<br>
    <br>
    At one time the West German police tried the 9x18 Super (aka 9mm Ultra), which was halfway between the 9x17 (.380 ACP) and 9x19 (9mm Luger). This was an excellent small CCW handgun, but few were made and ammo is not easy to find. It was eventually made obsolete by the Walther P-5C (P-5 Compact) in 9mm Luger, which is one of the smaller double action 9mm handguns. I have a P-5C and usually carry it if I need something a bit smaller than my .45 ACP. The P-5C is based on the old Walther P-38.
     
  5. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Flincher 100, the gun you are talking about is the new Ruger LCP.

    They are so new that they are very hard to find.

    I was lucky to get mine as the guy who put it on lay away, backed out of the deal.

    It is a .380 caliber and it weighs 9.4 ounces before you add the shells. It is double action only and has no on/off safety.

    It is so small, light and easy to carry you hardly know you have it on you.

    Check this Ruger LCP out.

    Hauxfan!
     
  6. chatbrat

    chatbrat TS Member

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    Thanx guys-but no has mentioned the type of ammo I use-- it has 204 ft.lbs vs the .380----with the S&W 317 I have reliability, nail driving accuracy, 8 rds, safety & a Crimson Trace---will a 22 lr that travels @ 1750FPS & has 204 ft. lbs stop an assailant---its energy is close to the old 38 spl with 158 gr bullet----thanx again---Phil
     
  7. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    I have heard that State Troopers did a study and found that the lowly 22 will penetrate their vest so in conclusion they would much rather be shot at with anything above that caliber . Of course the 357 and on up will knock them on their butts but not penetrate. Yes I know rifle rounds fired from certain hanguns will but the gang bangers seldom have Contenders. 22 better than a 25? Yes. Anything better than nothing? Yes! 9 MM was designed just to mess people up so it took some people to care for the injured, taking people off the line. It is and never was a man killer designed round. Liken it to the 38 Colts that were ineffective in the Phillipines, so poor that the Army refurbished Colt 1873's to have a sidearm that would do the job in one shot. Giving way to the adoption of the 45 ACP. Just a little history. Any firearm is better than none and the majority of confrontations are at less than seven yards and most end with no shots fired. Bill
     
  8. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    there have been a lot of people killed in elevators with a 22 automatic (a hit man's favorite)
     
  9. JDinTX

    JDinTX Member

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    I have one of the Kel-Tecs like shown above in .32 acp and I will tell you it is a Very reliable gun. When I first got it several years ago, went out and shot 450 rnds of hp ammo the first time out, and not one failure. easy to carry in summer with lightweight clothing.
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of you have never bothered to even test various ammunition on the different police vests. I have, and on sample material from the manufacturers, too. Not too long ago I ordered several .308 resistant and one .30-06 AP resistant vest for our people going to Central America. Have also tested various cartridges on car and truck doors and windshields. How about actually testing for yourselves instead of repeating what some misinformed armchair commandos are blogging?
     
  11. chatbrat

    chatbrat TS Member

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    I maybe wrong but I think the Aquila Super-max @ 1750 FPS, should be able to penetrate a vest---everyone who thinks these loads are the same as a standard 22 are grossly mistaken---it is like comparing a 38 sp to a 357 mag---this is why I use them they have tripple the energy of a standard 22 lr--Phil
     
  12. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    A couple of comments. As Hoosier alluded to above, the stated ballistics for the Super-Max are probably from a rifle. If you visit the Winchester site, the ft-lbs. of energy for a rifle shot is 66% higher than handgun shot, in .22 magnum. This comparison brings the 204 ft-lbs. of energy, probably based on rifle ballistics, down into the 122 ft-lbs. range.

    I studied the CCW issue a lot, and decided on the Kel-Tec P3AT in .380. I take comfort in the fact that it's really a 9mm short. I carry this because I feel it will make a loud noise when fired, and will provide a huge amount of discomfort to the victim, allowing me time to escape.

    In my car I carry a 1911 .45 or .44 magnum revolver. I want to figure out a way to carry a small .45, like a Slim Hawg, all the time.

    Just imagine a real ado at less than 7 yards, with people shouting and moving about, nerves jangling and hearts racing. I put my money on the man with the .45 against the laser-guided .22 every time.

    Having said that, it's made me take a new look at the .22 magnum revolver for CCW. Even the lowly Winchester .22 mag 40 grain bullet from a handgun develops 1,480 fps and 195 ft-lbs. at muzzle.

    Danny
     
  13. Texas Lar

    Texas Lar TS Member

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    Shot placement is King. Penetration is Queen. That being said, I would still rather have my .45 with me. Glock 36. Larger hole, more loss of fluids quicker. Better chance of threat being stopped sooner. Just my opinion. Texas Lar
     
  14. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    there is so much misinformation here

    a 223 wont penetrate a vest? oh really? very few vests, those with platesstop a 223 and not including AP rounds reliably

    there are vests that are 30 06 AP resistant? Oh really? resistant? what does that mean- and do you have pictures or specifications of such a vest?

    a 22 lr will penetrate a vest? I would chuck that vest for sure and get one that works

    If you want information on vests- go to the DOD testing site

    Gene
     
  15. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I'd take a 32 over a 22, a 380 over the 32, and a good 9mm over any of the previous. I really like a .40, .45, .357 mag or sig, but they aren't available in such a small/light package, the Kel Tec P40 being the closest. The Kel Tec is hard to beat and can be had in a small single stack in 32, 380, or 9mm. They are a handful in the larger calibers, but still manageable. The new Ruger 380 looks suspiciously like a Kel Tec P3AT. As far as caliber selection, muzzle enery isn't the only factor in stopping an assailant. The bigger and deeper the hole, the sooner they fall down, if you place it properly. The best gun for self defense is the one you have in your hand when the need arises. Carry something you can depend on and shoot well.
     
  16. lightfoot

    lightfoot TS Member

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    I use Uncle Mike’s inside the pants holsters for concealed carry and have been known to carry my full size S&W 915 9mm semi-auto while wearing swimming trunks and a t-shirt. So I consider anything less than that to be small and easy. Every now and then I think about getting a small .380, but one deterrent for me is the cost of ammunition. 9mm seems to be the most economical.


    I also carry J-frame .38 revolvers quite a bit. Not an economical round compared to the 9mm, but I’ve always had .38 special guns and I just like the simplicity and reliability of a revolver.
     
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