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OT- California & Big Brother

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by chipped1, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    Read this in utter disbelief. Any of you Californians wish to weigh in on this one. 1984 just arrived in California.

    The state of California is revising its building codes, and lookie what’s buried in there:

    Every new home and every change to existing homes’ central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT [programmable communicating thermostat] beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a “non-removable ” FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During “price events” those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During “emergency events” the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

    Forget 1984’s “Two Minutes Hate.” Now you’ll have the “Two Minutes Sweat,” courtesy of the bureaucrats in Sacramento
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Got a linky?
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    And they can shut off your car if it's stolen(or doesn't get to the required emission check).

    HN
     
  4. coyote_198

    coyote_198 TS Member

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    BEWARE!!!!!! THEY WALK AMONG US !!!!!!!! AND THEY VOTE>
     
  5. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    Brian,

    Is this the linky you are looking for?

    http://lonestartimes.com/2008/01/07/big-brother-wants-control-of-your-hvac/

    Chip
     
  6. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Another good reason why I Left that state. Bad place to live.
     
  7. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    The story has no sites to building codes or any other regulations. I will believe it when I see a citation. Till then, I think this is baloney. Jake
     
  8. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    Here you go --

    Specifically re "2008 Building Energy Efficiency Standards Docket # 07-BSTD-1." Try contacting Chris Gekas who is the process administrator of the proceedings at cgekas@energy.state.ca.us.
     
  9. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    What, no comment Jake?

    Chip
     
  10. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    They do that here in Michigan, It's called interruptible a/c service.
    When the demand gets too high they can shut off the a/c units for a 15 min interval.

    I get a cheaper rate for electricity on that meter. This is only for my 2 a/c units, I have a meter just for them.

    DTE has no control over the meter for my furnaces .


    Jerbear
     
  11. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    Admiral:

    You as an "officer" would surely recognize the need to make a citizens home safe by performing a "safety check" don't you???? You know how "cable" thieves are caught with the use of detectors aimed at you home from the street!!!! Of course the "state" would be monitoring their own system,,,any deviation of personal conduct would be immediatly be passed on to the proper authorities........Welcome to the new police force of the future........

    AKA Grammie..........
     
  12. BMC

    BMC Member

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    SCE has had that option for several years. I get offers to opt into that program every few months. I have a few friends who opted into it, which they install some kind of interruptable thermostat that SCE can turn off when the demand gets too high. Two of my friends said the discount they got for opting into this service made their electric bill during the summer a whole lot less, and they said their service was only interrupted twice all summer, and it was only for a short period of time.
     
  13. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    So what do you Californians think? Big Brother is looking out for you.

    Chip
     
  14. BMC

    BMC Member

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    California sucks, but we like the weather and the proximity of so many shooting ranges that we just suck it up and deal with all of the other BS.
     
  15. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing new about this concept. When my Dad put in the new electric water heater, replacing the coal fired one, they put an additional meter on the electric service. It had a built in timer. It would not operate from 6 to 8 in the morning or from 4 to 6 in the evening. Dad paid less for the electicity that went through that meter.

    The system described here is even better, because it will not interrupt unless there is high demand. I am assuming it is meant for air conditioning units only. Dad's peak meter was off every morning and evening.

    But since the hot water heater had a 50 gallon tank, it did not cause any problems. Mom did the laundry in the middle of the day, and we had our baths in the evening.

    HM
     
  16. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    Now the Herald Tribune is reporting.

    California wants to control home thermostats
    By Felicity Barringer Published: January 11, 2008


    SAN FRANCISCO: The conceit in the 1960s show "The Outer Limits" was that outside forces had taken control of your television set.

    Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.

    The proposed rules are contained in a document circulated by the California Energy Commission, which for more than three decades has set state energy efficiency standards for home appliances, like water heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators.

    The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers' preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities' suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers' wishes.

    Final approval is expected next month.

    Today in Americas
    This year, Clinton is off the stage and on the streets in NevadaRepublican candidates spar in South Carolina debateHow did pollsters and the media get New Hampshire wrong?"You realize there are times - very rarely, once every few years - when you would be subject to a rotating outage and everything would crash including your computer and traffic lights, and you don't want to do that," said Arthur Rosenfeld, a member of the energy commission.

    Reducing individual customers' electrical use - if necessary, involuntarily - could avoid that, Rosenfeld said. "If you can control rotating outages by letting everyone in the state share the pain," he said, "there's a lot less pain to go around."

    While the proposals have received little attention in California, the Internet and talk radio are abuzz with indignation at the idea.

    The radio-controlled thermostat is not a new technology, though it is constantly being tweaked; the latest iterations were on display this week at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Pacific Gas and Electric, the major utility in Northern California, already has a pilot program in Stockton that allows customers to choose to have their air-conditioning systems attached to a radio-controlled device to reduce use during periods when electricity rates are at their peak. But the idea that a government would mandate use of these devices and reserve the power to override a building owner's wishes galls some people.

    "This is an outrage," one Californian said in an e-mail message to Rosenfeld. "We need to build new facilities to handle the growth in this state, not become Big Brother to the citizens of California."

    The broader stir on the Internet began when Joseph Somsel, a San Jose-based contributor to the publication American Thinker, wrote an article a week ago on the programmable communicating thermostat, or PCT. Somsel went after the proposal with arguments that were by turns populist ("Come the next heat wave, the elites might be comfortably lolling in La Jolla's ocean breezes" while "the Central Valley's poor peons are baking in Bakersfield"), free-market ("PCTs will obscure the price signals to power plant developers") and civil libertarian ("the new PCT requirement certainly seems to violate the 'a man's home is his castle' common-law dictum"). Word of the California proposal hit the outrage button in corners of the Internet, was written about in The North County Times in Southern California, and got a derisive mention on Wednesday on Rush Limbaugh's radio program. The fact that similar radio-controlled technologies have been used on a voluntary basis in irrigation systems on farm fields and golf courses and in limited programs for buildings on Long Island is seldom mentioned in Internet postings that make liberal use of references to George Orwell's dystopian novel "1984" and Big Brother, the omnipresent voice of Orwell's police state. Ralph Cavanagh, an energy expert with the Natural Resources Defense Council, said in an interview that at a time of peak electricity use, "most people given a choice of 2 degrees of temperature setback and 14th-century living would happily embrace this capacity." Somsel, in an interview on Thursday, said he had done further research and was concerned that the radio signal - or the Internet instructions that would be sent, in an emergency, from utilities' central control stations to the broadcasters sending the FM signal - could be hacked into. That is not possible, said Nicole Tam, a spokeswoman for PG&E who works with the pilot program in Stockton. Radio pages "are encrypted and encoded," Tam said.
     
  17. zap

    zap TS Member

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    For what its worth, this thread is very timley as this issue and proposal made national news tonight of all times. The caviat however is that ther is a provision to systematically grandfather in this requirement to existing homes built after 1980. The power co. wil bear the cost of both providing and installing the sealed thermostat . Who do you think will pay for that ? The consumers in their bills. Further there is currently a proposal under consideration to eliminate, (totally ban all wood burning stoves) reguardless of whether or not they currently meet required efficiency requirements.In sacto. the biggest utility co is smud. It appears they are still trying to defray the cost of dismantaling the rancho seco neuc power plant. When in the holy hell will folks in calif. wize up and realize they need to take charge and get the damn doo gooder liberals the hell out of there. They are the first to complain about local legislation but are so passive they wont take a stand. They deserve what they get. I am so glad i got out of the state when i did!! I await Jim Elliots comments as he will support the ca. institution right into oblivion just like the club!!!
     
  18. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    Years ago I lived in an area that had CoOp electric. If you had an electric water heater you got a break on your electric rate if you allowed them to put a radio controlled switch on it. During high usage periods they could and did shut water heaters down throughout their territory. What this acompliished was the Co Op's rate would not go up the next year becasue of the peaking of usage. It never caused problems. They also had rate reductions for those that put in geo thermal systems and there were discounts on the cost of those systems. Very progressive thnking if you ask me. I do agree with the Californicators on many things but this one is a win win for consumers. Bill
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    So quit whining an buy a couple fans, all you crybabies.

    Having your house at a nice comfy 68 degrees is not a god given right.

    Incidentally, what would happen if an elderly person had their cooling cut off and had heat related problems, up to and including death? Would the state be liable for shutting off the cooling?

    Interesting.

    HM
     
  20. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    Whoops. I meant to say I DO NOT agree with much from California. Like I posted the Co Op sweetened the deal with an overall rate cut to make it work. Bill
     
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