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OT 30/06 VS .308

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Tugboat, Jun 2, 2007.

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  1. Tugboat

    Tugboat Member

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    Seeking opinions on overall performance of these two calibers at distances 300 yards plus..Thanks in advance..
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    A slight edge to the venerable 30-06. However, the short action 308 is within a whisker with the advantage of much easier bolt operation.

    They both use the same bullets, and performance should be adequate for both.

    Not much else to say.

    HM
     
  3. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Check out the ballistics tables in any of the ammunition catalogs (available on-line). It depends on what you plan to shoot ... that is why I went with the 300 when I bought my moose rifle some years ago. Bill Malcolm
     
  4. ftlupton

    ftlupton TS Member

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    Depends on use of course. Punchin holes in paper at very long range I would go with the 300 too. Hunting deer, antelope type game the short action .308 works great, bigger game 06 or more. I've shot quite a few elk and the quickest and hardest kill I had was with a .270, go figure. Good luck.
    ftlupton
     
  5. deercreek

    deercreek Well-Known Member

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    I would find it hard for any North American animal to know the difference at 300 yds. with the same bullet. I use the 308 and have taken Wyoming deer up to 400 yds. with many "one shots" while I watched my buddies chase there deer many times with the use of what they call a "man's gun".
     
  6. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    My older brother paid for an Elk hunt in CO one year and he took his custom .308 rifle. There were the guide and 4 hunters on this trip. As it turned out, the brother's rifle took animals for him, two other hunters, and the guide on that hunt and all were sound, one shot kills. I don't recall the "how comes" of why they were all using his rifle but the point is that the .308 is a marvelous cartridge for it's intended use....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  7. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    I suspect it will be easier to get accuracy at 300 plus with the .308 as it is an inherently accurate round. On the other hand when you say 300 plus it begs the question of what you plan to use it for.I like big bullets when shooting long distance on game. Targets make no diffrence as the outcome has no serious consequence. I really believe you owe it to the game to use enough gun and to practice at the range you plan to shoot. Just because it shoots 1 inch at 100 yards doesn't mean that it will shoot 3" at 300 or 4" at 400. 300 Plus yards is a long, long way off and your usage really determines what I would reccomend. Jeff
     
  8. mike dwyer

    mike dwyer TS Member

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    If you intend to use it for hunting then I suggest you use use which ever one has the flattest trajectory for the bullet weight you will be shooting. You will minimize holdover and have greater kill rates. For example, my .06 is sighted in at +1.5" at 100 yards so I can hold dead center out to just over 300 yds. and still be in a 6" kill zone. No guess work.

    Mike Dwyer
     
  9. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    As many posters have mentioned, what you plan to shoot is the main question. A large animal with a thick hide and fur is much more difficult to kill than a thin skinned light animal.

    As an example, a friend of mine who had shot many moose over the years with a .308 shot a very large bull at 75 yards. 3 of the 5 shots were kill shots, but the enraged moose ran away. We went back 4 hours later and found the moose a few hundred yards from where he was shot. He was still alive and had to be finished with a shot to the head. The next year we all upgraded to magnums. No moose has since walked away. Bill Malcolm
     
  10. Ruck

    Ruck Well-Known Member

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    The thing that hasn't been clearly stated here (IMO), is that the difference in the wonderful old '06 and the wonderful newer .308 is negligible.....with 150-165 grain bullets. When the game afoot requires more bullet weight than that, the '06 gets the edge every time. The .308 is a GREAT round with the lighter slugs, but it just can't deliver the punch with a 180-220 grainer that the '06 can, due to the capacity of the case and the required bullet seating depth. Just my .02...

    Ken Rucker
     
  11. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

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    I think as Ken does. For paper there's no difference, identical accuracy. For animals bigger than coyotes, most people shouldn't shoot beyond 300 yards, but if they do, because they've practiced shooting from field positions a lot in the off-season, shouldn't shoot a .308, due to velocity and trajectory. The .30-06 is superior in every way except action length, to my mind. Phil E
     
  12. hubcap

    hubcap TS Member

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    You or the animal won't know the difference. I prefer the .308 due to the fact it is shorter. If you have a personal reason to pick one over the other ---- go for it. Like I said - you won't be able to tell the difference.

    Hubcap
     
  13. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    The 30-06 and .308 are two world class cartridges. The 30-06 has a slightly larger internal volume while the .308 is more compact and burns powder slightly more uniformly. In the hands of an expert, I would hate to live on the difference in accuracy.

    As Ruck says, the 30-06 is the better cartridge with bullet weights of 180 grains and up and I would say 165 grains and up. At 150 grains, the .308 really shines.

    In a well prepared rifle with good optics, either cartridge is capable of good accuracy out to 600 yards or more. Each cartridge has been used effectively at Camp Perry in 1000 yard matches.

    A key question is shooting at 300 yards or more. If you are talking about paper targets, fine. However, for a game animal, please consider the agony a wounded deer goes through when it is gut shot and eaten alive by coyotes.

    I would think that a 300 yard shot would require a well tuned rifle and load combination able to shoot 9” groups (1 MOA) at 300 yards. The shooter would have to be a good judge of distance and be able to adjust for cross winds.

    I know that many varmint hunters have taken ground hogs, prairie dogs or rock chucks at well over 300 yards. But even a marginal hit with a fast expanding varmint bullet is usually fatal. A deer or larger animal can absorb a lot of punishment from a marginal hit and run off to die alone.
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    At distances of 300 yards-plus, the .30-06 has an edge on the .308. Larger case capacity = more room for powder = higher Muzzle Velocity = better downrange performance.

    John C. Saubak
     
  15. 8 1/2 shot

    8 1/2 shot TS Member

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    No one mentioned reloading. The 06 shines there, the increased case capacity allows much more latitude to develop loads without going over pressure. If one is shooting factory ammo and it shoots well in their gun the 308 does just fine. I have a few of both calibers and can't say that it makes a difference other than in which gun I want to carry that day. My 308's are short and my 06's are long guns.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Ruck is spot on.<br>
    <br>
    You didn't state a purpose for your inqiry. Is it hunting, target shooting or a TEOTWAWKI/tactical gun?<br>
    <br>
    I like the .308, as it's quite accurate. The .30-06 comes close, but the case is old school design. For long range accuracy, the .308 is the way to go.<br>
    <br.
    On the other hand, I do not feel comfortable hunting game larger than black bears or large deer with a .308. It's not that the .308 won't kill - it just doesn't kill immediately at times. When you're in difficult terrain, the last thing you want to do is have to bushwhack after a fatally wounded animal. I want them dead at or near where they got shot. The .308 runs out of power before it runs out of accuracy, though this happens at very long ranges (consult a ballasitics chart.)<br>
    <br>
    Interestingly, for long range hitting power, the .300 Win Mag has been used by both police forces and the military. It's definitely not as common as the .308, but it's more common than the .30-06 for this purpose. For hunting, the .300 Win Mag has been proven for longer ranges and heavier bullets. On the other hand, it's overkill for deer, especially at short ranges, because it can ruin meat. I've seen handloads that were impressive for accuracy, and could easily match or best the .30-06, but they were lagging the .308 somewhat. In addition, it has fierce recoil. A late friend of mine, a custom gun maker, once built what got nicknamed the "Telephone Pole Gun". It was a .300 Win Mag with basically a barrel blank screwed into it. It was only crowned, threaded and chambered. The long range accuracy was jaw dropping. But you can imagine what the gun weighed. It almost needed wheels and a handle to drag it around. Recoil was mild.<br>
    <br>
    For an all around, do everything cartridge, the .30-06 can't be beat. It's 101 years old, and is still going strong. It can be loaded with light 100 grain bullets for low powered small game and pest control (a handful will work nicely for survival cartridges so you can shoot small game), to 130 grainers for varmints, 150 to 168 grainers for all around hunting, and 180 to 220 grainers for bear and elk. The .308 can do that, though its practical limit is with 180 grainers. The .30-06 has that extra case capacity that's just enough to help when deep seating long bullets.<br>
    <br>
    For pure accuracy, with all other considerations secondary, go with the .308.
     
  17. Lariat

    Lariat TS Member

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    I own both calibers. I like my 308 for deer hunting over my 06. The 308 kicks less & it weighs less.My 308 has killed every deer with one shot using Hornady light mag 150 grain bullets. I keep the 06 for my grandson to use when he decides to start deer hunting. I plan to give it to him if he likes deer hunting.
     
  18. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    With factory loads 180 gr and under, they are two peas in a pod. The '06 is a century old, and has been watered down by the factories. The 308 is nearing the 60 year old marker, and is still loaded fairly heavy. Military loads with the 172 grain bullet had the 30/06 90 fps faster. (2550 v/s 2640)

    In a good bolt action rifle, with carefully worked up handloads, the 308 with RL-15 behind the 150 gr bullet and the '06 with RL-22 behind the 165 can both be run at about 3000 fps. With premium boat tail bullets, the '06 will have a little flatter trajectory and a little more power at the limit of effective big game range, which has been figured out over the years to be around 300 yards, give or take a little. At 300 yards, with a Hornady SST bullet, in the above mentioned weights for each caliber, the '06 has about 10% more energy, and about the same trajectory. A 10 mile cross wind will push it 1/2" less than the 308. Not enough difference to matter.

    If one must take larger game with a 30 caliber standard, such as moose, elk, or the big bears, the '06 can push bullets up to 250 gr at useful speeds.

    The advantage of the 308 is, of course, a lighter, shorter rifle, and the potential of more accuracy. At normal game ranges, this is not a factor worth mentioning. Any center fire hunting rifle that can consistently shoot sub MOA groups is perfectly suitable for shots to the efffective limits of the cartridge.

    I have two identical rifles chambered for both, and long ago came to this conclusion. For the average shooter not wanting to shoot bullets over 180 gr, there is not enough difference to matter.

    Which do I like best? Well, I have pared my hunting rifles down to one 308 and one 30/06. I will keep both. With that said, my precision rifles are a 308 and a 223, which is another subject for another time.
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of another subject for another time, my favorite hunting cartridge is the .45-70, particularly when loaded with blackpowder.
     
  20. BL

    BL Member

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    Too bad Carlos is no longer with us to answer the question. He had much experience with both cartridges. Mostly at extreme range hunting the most dangerous of all.
     
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